GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO LIFE AHEAD HERE ON PBS.

WAYNE, I'M SANDY THOMPSON, THE HOST OF THE SHOW AND I'M SO GLAD TO WELCOME YOU BACK TO OUR STUDIO WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAVE LIVE GUESTS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MANY COVID MONTHS.

SO WE HAVE BEEN DOING OUR SHOWS IF YOU'VE WATCHED REGULARLY BUT YOU KNOW WE'VE OFTEN BEEN HAVING THE LITTLE SCREENS UP ON THE SIDE WITH OUR GUESTS IN THEIR OFFICES.

BUT TONIGHT I HAVE TWO ATTORNEYS RIGHT HERE ON SET WITH ME, ONE YOU KNOW VERY WELL BECAUSE SHE'S APPEARED MANY TIMES HERE ON LIFE AHEAD AND THAT IS OBVIOUSLY A BEAUTIFUL JESSICA THORESON, ELDER LAW ATTORNEY.

NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE.

IT'S SO GREAT TO BE HERE.

I AM VERY EXCITED TO BE IN PERSON.

I KNOW AND YOU'VE DONE VERY MANY SHOWS WITH US IN THIS LAST YEAR AND WE'VE SAID MAYBE THE NEXT TIME YOU'LL BE HERE ON THE COUCH WITH US AND DAN LEININGER ,WELCOME BACK.

THANK YOU.

DAN IS AN ELDER LAW ATTORNEY.

ELDER ALWAYS I THINK IT WOULD BE MY SPECIALTY.

OK, AND DAN WORKS OUT OF THE WARSAW OFFICE.

SO YOU MADE THE DRIVING THE RANGE THAT'S RIGHT.

A LONG DRIVE IN THE RAIN.

THANK YOU.

YOU DIDN'T GET TO DO IT FROM A REMOTE OFFICE.

YEAH.

BUT IT'S NICE TO HAVE THEM WITH US HERE LIVE AND IT'S NICE TO HAVE YOU WITH US AS WELL.

NOW I WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT THIS IS REALLY YOUR SHOW.

WE HAVE A GENERAL TOPIC THIS EVENING BUT AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS NEXT HALF HOUR, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS LEGAL QUESTIONS THAT DAN AND JESSICA MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP YOU WITH, WE WOULD WELCOME YOUR PHONE CALLS AND PHONE NUMBERS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN NINE SIX NINE TWENTY SEVEN TWENTY AND IF YOU'RE OUT OF THE IMMEDIATE AREA, JUST PUT A ONE EIGHT SIX IN FRONT OF THAT AND IT'LL BE TOLL FREE FOR YOU.

OK, BASICALLY WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT REAL ESTATE ADMINISTRATION AND TIPS ON HOW TO AVOID PROBATE.

BIG TOPIC.

YEAH, A LOT OF ANSWERS COMING, RIGHT?

YEAH, HOPEFULLY.

WELL YOU HAD SAID JESSICA WHEN YOU SUGGESTED THIS TOPIC SMALL ESTATE ADMINISTRATION WHAT IS A SMALL ESTATE?

WHERE IS THAT DIVIDING LINE BETWEEN SMALL AND LARGE?

SURE.

SO MOST STATES WILL HAVE SOME SORT OF THRESHOLD FOR WHAT THEY CONSIDER A SMALL ESTATE HERE IN INDIANA.

A SMALL ESTATE IS IF YOUR ESTATE IS LESS THAN FIFTY THOUSAND TOTAL ALL ASSETS ALL ASSETS HOME.

YEP.

ALL OF THAT FINANCES EVERYTHING EXACTLY.

SO WE LOOK AT IT WE START ALWAYS BY FIRST LOOKING AT WHAT DO YOU OWN AT THE TIME OF YOUR PASSING?

HOW WAS TITLED WAS IT HELD IN JUST YOUR NAME?

WAS IT JOINT WITH A SPOUSE OR WAS IT JOINT WITH A CHILD OR SOME OTHER FAMILY MEMBER?

AND WE JUST SIMPLY LOOK AT EXACTLY HOW IT WAS TITLED AND THE VALUE OF IT ON THE DAY OF YOUR PASSING AND THEN WE START LOOKING AT THOSE TOTALS AND FIGURE OUT IF WE'RE UNDER THAT FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLAR THRESHOLD OR NOT AND YOU START WORKING FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW, DANIEL, IT'S KIND OF EASY AND A LITTLE BIT TO PROBATE.

I WANT TO EXPLORE THAT A LITTLE MORE AS WE GO ALONG.

BUT WITH SMALL STATES THAT JESSICA WAS TALKING ABOUT FIFTY THOUSAND OR UNDER IS IS IT A FREQUENT THING OR COMMON THING THAT YOU GO INTO PROBATE WITH THEIR STATE?

WELL, IT'S HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

PROBATE REALLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PROBATE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE WILLS OR DIE WITHOUT WILLS.

SO IF THEY OWN PROPERTY JUST IN THEIR NAME, THE PURPOSE BEHIND PROBATE ADMINISTRATOR IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PROPERTY GETS TO WHOEVER IS ENTITLED.

SURE, IF THEY HAVE BENEFICIARIES UNDER A WILL WOULD BE EVENTUALLY GOING TO THE BENEFICIARIES IF THEY DIE WITHOUT A WILL.

THERE ARE INDIANA STATUTES THAT WILL DICTATE WHERE THAT PROPERTY HOW GETS DIVIDED.

SO IN ORDER TO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PROBATE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SITUATION WHERE IF IT'S MORE THAN FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS OF PROBATE ASSETS THEN THE FAMILY IS GOING TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT WE CALL FORMAL ESTATE ADMINISTRATION THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM WHEN THAT CAN TAKE THAT CAN TAKE MANY MONTHS TO TO ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH WHAT'S THAT?

I GUESS I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT AS OPPOSED TO PROBATE.

WELL, IF YOU IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 50 LET'S ASSUME THAT SOMEBODY HAS A WILL AND THEY DIE WITH ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND JUST IN THEIR NAME COULD BE A CD IN THEIR NAME BUT THEY THEY HAVE A WILL AND THEY LEAVE IT TO MAYBE EVEN THEIR SPOUSE.

OK, WELL IN ORDER FOR THAT WILL TO BE VALID IT HAS TO BE FILED WITH THE COURT.

OK, WILLS AREN'T VALID UNLESS THEY'RE FILED WITH THE COURT AND THEN IN ANYWHERE RIGHT UP UNTIL THE TIME OF ITS ACTUALLY ADMITTED TO PROBATE BY A PROBATE JUDGE, IT'S REALLY DOES NOT HAVE ANY LEGAL CONSEQUENCE TO ONCE IT'S FILED WITH THE COURT THE COURT WILL APPOINT A PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE.

WE USED TO CALL THEM EXECUTORS AND EXECUTRIX IS AND THEN IT BECOMES THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO WIND UP THE AFFAIRS OF THAT PERSON WHO HAS PASSED AWAY AND ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THEY HAVE TO DO IS DETERMINE WHAT CREDITORS THEY MIGHT HAVE.

THEY HAVE TO THEY HAVE TO FILE AN INVENTORY EVENTUALLY THAT SHOWS WHAT THEY OWNED AND THERE IS NOTICES THAT GO INTO THE NEWSPAPER AND CREDITORS HAVE THREE MONTHS TO FILE CLAIMS WITH THE COURT.

SO DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME THE PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE IS TRYING TO LOCATE ALL THE PROPERTY THAT THE DECEDENT MIGHT HAVE HAD AND DETERMINING WHETHER ANY OF THE CREDITORS HAVE LEGITIMATE CLAIMS OR NOT.

AND ONCE ALL OF THAT IS ACCOMPLISHED THEN THE PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE CAN MAKE A FINAL DISTRIBUTION, HAS TO REPORT TO THE COURT THAT THEY ARE FINISHED AND DO AN ACCOUNTING.

SO IT'S QUITE A PROCESS.

OH, IT'S VERY COMPLICATED AND I KNOW IT'S JUST A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK.

JESSICA, IF SOMEONE PASSES AWAY LET'S SAY YOUR MOTHER PASSES AWAY AND WELL IT DOESN'T MATTER.

I GUESS IF SHE DID OR DID NOT HAVE A WILL, WHAT'S THE FIRST AND LET'S SAY YOU'RE THE PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE.

WHAT'S THE FIRST THING YOU NEED TO DO THEN TO MAKE ALL THIS HAPPEN THAT DAN WAS TALKING ABOUT?

WELL, MY FIRST STEP IS TO REALLY LOCATE THE WILL BECAUSE IF THERE IS A WILL THAT IS GOING TO GOVERN, WHO IS GOING TO INHERIT FROM THAT ESTATE?

YES.

AND IT IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO DESIGNATE ME AS THAT PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE IN THAT WILL AND SO THAT IS EVIDENCE THAT THE COURT IS GOING TO USE TO FORMALLY APPOINT ME AS THE PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE AND THEN I'M GOING TO START LOOKING FOR ASSETS AND DEBTS JUST AS DAN DESCRIBED.

I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH THE BILLS.

I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH THE MAIL TO SEE WHAT I CAN FIND AND WHAT I KNOW SOMETIMES IT'S VERY OBVIOUS SOMETIMES THAT TAKES SEVERAL MONTHS TO REALLY KIND OF FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT PERSON OWNED, ESPECIALLY IF I'VE BEEN COMPLETELY CLUELESS THROUGHOUT THEIR WHOLE LIFE.

I'VE GOT TO WAIT FOR BANK STATEMENTS TO COME AND SOMETIMES THOSE THINGS COME IN QUARTERLY.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IF YOU ARE GOING TO DESIGNATE SOMEBODY'S PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE IN YOUR WILL TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE AT LEAST GENERALLY AWARE OF WHERE YOUR IMPORTANT PAPERWORK IS IN YOUR HOME, MAYBE A LIST OF ASSETS NOT NECESSARILY FULL ACCOUNT NUMBERS OR FULL VALUES BUT AT LEAST KNOW YOU'VE GOT AN ACCOUNT WITH FIDELITY OR YOU'VE GOT AN ACCOUNT WITH A CREDIT UNION OR YOU'VE GOT THIS LIFE INSURANCE POLICY SO THAT THAT PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE CAN REALLY IDENTIFY OK, THIS IS A PROBATE ASSET THAT'S GOING TO GO ACCORDING TO THE WILL OR THIS IS A BENEFICIARY ASSET THAT'S GOING TO GO ACCORDING TO THE BENEFICIARY DESIGNATIONS WITH THAT INSTITUTION.

AND SO THAT'S KIND OF OUR FIRST STEP IS DETERMINE IF THERE'S A WILL AND THEN TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THOSE ASSETS ARE SO WE KNOW HOW EXACTLY TO ADMINISTER THEM.

SO DAN, WHAT RECOMMENDATIONS WOULD YOU GIVE TO OUR VIEWERS AT HOME AND TO MAKE THAT JOB MORE SIMPLE FOR THEIR PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR THEIR CHILDREN OR OR.

WELL, I THINK JESSICA HIT HIT IT ON THE HEAD WHERE IF YOU CAN HAVE YOUR AFFAIRS IN ORDER, ONE OF THE MORE FRUSTRATING THINGS IS WHEN WE HAVE A PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE WHO GETS APPOINTED MAYBE A CHILD GETS APPOINTED BY THE COURT BUT THE PARENTS OR THE PARENT WHO PASSED AWAY NEVER REALLY LET THEM IN ON WHAT THEY HAVE.

THEY'RE VERY MAYBE JUST FELT LIKE THEY COULDN'T SHARE THAT INFORMATION.

A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL THAT FINANCIAL INFORMATION IS VERY PERSONAL.

I THINK ESPECIALLY YOU KNOW, THE OLDER GENERATION ISN'T AS OPEN WITH THAT SORT OF THING.

YEAH, BUT YOU CAN YOU CAN KEEP THINGS YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A SAFE AT HOME OR IF YOU HAVE A FILE CABINET.

BUT IT REALLY DOES HELP TO HAVE A LISTING OF ASSETS THAT YOU KEEP UP TO DATE FROM TIME TO TIME AND YEAH, BECAUSE IT MAY NOT ALL BE LISTED IN THE WELL PERHAPS IT WILL WILL TYPICALLY NOT LIST ANY ASSETS.

IT MIGHT JUST SAY, YOU KNOW ALL DAY EVERYTHING IS GOING TO SO-AND-SO AND EVERYTHING IS WHAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS EVERYTHING.

YEAH.

IS THERE A TIME LIMIT JESSICA YOU MENTIONED ABOUT YOU KNOW WATCHING FOR BILLS AND THINGS TO COME IN.

IS THERE A CERTAIN TIME LIMIT THAT YOUR CREDITORS HAVE TO SEND BILLS?

I MEAN THEY MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW THAT THIS PERSON'S PASSED AWAY SO THEY'RE STILL SENDING THEIR MONTHLY STATEMENT.

BUT IS THERE A TIME LIMIT THAT YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR THOSE TO COME IN BEFORE YOU WOULD GO TO PROBATE OR FINISH THE CLOSING THE ESTATE?

SO AS DAN MENTIONED, WHEN THE ESTATE IS OPEN THERE IS THIS NOTICE TO CREDITORS THAT IS PUT INTO THE NEWSPAPER.

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO IS THE CREDITORS?

HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU DON'T THAT'S WHY IT'S PUBLISHED IN THE NEWSPAPER.

IT'S PUBLISHED IN THE NEWSPAPER AND THEN THAT GIVES THE CREDITORS THREE MONTHS TO FILE A CLAIM.

OK, NOW PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVES IF THEY ARE AWARE OF BILLS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE NOTICE TO THAT PARTICULAR CREDITOR.

SO FOR INSTANCE, IF I KNEW MY MOM WAS IN THIS PARTICULAR NURSING HOME FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AND I WASN'T A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE HOW THAT BILL WAS GETTING PAID AS PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE YOU SHOULD PROVIDE THEM NOTICE OF THE ESTATE BEING OPENED AND THEN FOR CREDITORS THAT YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT OR FOR CREDITORS THAT MAYBE HAVE BEEN HANGING OUT OR FORGOT TO BILL, THEY HAVE A GENERAL NINE MONTH OBLIGATION TO FILE FROM THE DATE OF DEATH SO YOU CAN GO THAT LONG AND STILL COLLECT.

WE HAVE A PHONE CALL I KNEW WE WOULD BECAUSE THESE JURISICH GOOD AND INFORMATIVE I GUESS THAT I KNEW WE WOULD HAVE SOME GOOD LEGAL QUESTIONS TONIGHT.

JOE, I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE ON THE LINE WITH US TONIGHT.

SO WELCOME TO LIFE AHEAD AND WHAT QUESTION DO YOU HAVE THIS EVENING?

HI.

FIRST OF ALL TO SAY I REALLY ENJOYED WATCHING THIS SHOW YOU REALLY GOOD ADVICE THAT THINGS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT NOT THINK ABOUT IS MY SITUATION AND IT'S JUST GENERIC AS POSSIBLE IS THAT MY FATHER PASSED AWAY UNEXPECTEDLY SO MY MOM IS LEFT HANGING SO SHE WANTED TO MOVE BACK IN THE HOUSE HERE AND SHE TOLD ME THAT HER FINANCES WERE OUT OF BUSINESS AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.

AND SO WE'RE DOWN TO HER ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WHO SAID EVERYBODY'S FOR 50 YEARS THEY'VE HAD A REAL CONTESTED SO EVERYTHING WAS SIGNED, SEALED, DELIVERED, LEGALLY PROCESSED FOR HER LIVING, HER POWER OF ATTORNEY OR POWER FINANCIAL AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT AND SHE LEFT ANYTHING TO ME TO MANAGE HER BUSINESS BECAUSE MY TWO OTHER SIBLINGS HERE SHE FELT UNRELIABLE AND I SAT DOWN, TALKED ABOUT IT LIKE THE KING OF ENGLAND OR THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND AND PRINCE CHARLES DID SO JUST BEFORE THE DEADLINE HERE WAS A DAY, DAY, MONTH WHATEVER DEADLINES HE PASSED AWAY IN NOVEMBER AND SO IN MAY THEY FILED THIS WILL CONTEST AND SO THEY TRIED TO MOVE WITH ME FROM BEING MY MOM'S PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE EVEN THOUGH I KNEW HOW OUR BUSINESS THAT'S WHAT SHE TOLD ME TO DO.

AND SO I WAS DRAGGED OUT FOR I DON'T KNOW, THREE YEARS HERE ACROSS THE STATE 150000 DOLLARS OR MORE.

PERSONALLY I NEVER HAD A THOUSAND DOLLARS EVEN THOUGH I HAD, YOU KNOW, PROPERLY SIGNED AND EXECUTED REFILE PAPERWORK AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO IF ALL THAT ENDED UP HAPPENING WAS THE COURT HAD HER DECLARED INCOMPETENT, HAD ME DECLARED AS SOME KIND OF EVIL, YOU KNOW, SCHEMER OR WHATEVER.

AND SO WE SAID AND I'LL BE HONEST IT ABOUT A MILLION DOLLAR ESTATE AND A THIRD IT I MEAN A FOURTH OF IT ENDED UP GOING TO THE ATTORNEYS AND THE REST OF MY MONEY AND MY TWO SISTERS NOTHING NOTHING.

BUT WE GOT WHAT WAS LEFT AND SO THE WHOLE PROCESS WAS REALLY UNFAIR EVEN THOUGH LIKE I SAID, I HAD THE PROPER PAPERWORK AND YOU KNOW, MY MOM AND I WE SAT DOWN AND THAT'S SHE TOLD ME SHE WANTED TO BUT IT WAS OVERTURNED AND I RAN AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND SAID OH WELL LIFE YOU KNOW, LIFE GOES ON.

BUT I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT STORY OUT THERE AND THE HOUSES ARE MOVING.

I FEEL PERSONALLY REPRESENTATIVE IF YOU HAVE SIBLINGS THAT DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY GOT THEIR FAIR SHARE, THEY CAN GO TO COURT CONTESTS THE WILL AND REALLY MAKE A MESS OF THINGS AND COST THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

SO THAT'S JUST ONE SEMESTER.

I THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

LIKE I SAID, I NEVER SAID THANK YOU JOE.

THANK YOU.

AND I'M SO GLAD THAT YOU SHARED THOSE COMMENTS AND IN YOUR PERSONAL STORY WITH US BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY NOT ALL THAT UNCOMMON.

I KNOW WE'VE HAD PROBATE JUDGE HEALTH CARE A NUMBER OF TIMES AND HE TALKS ABOUT HOW FAMILIES CAN REALLY GET INTO DESCENSION EITHER BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY ELSE DECIDED WHO WAS THE PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE OR A HOME HEALTH CARE ADVISOR OR WHATEVER AND THAT IN PROBATE THEN HE HAS TO END UP MAKING A DECISION AND IT CAN CAUSE LIFELONG A DERANGEMENT.

JESSICA, YOU'VE BEEN AN ATTORNEY A LONG TIME HERE.

HAVE YOU HAD SITUATIONS LIKE THIS AND HOW DO YOU COUNSEL PEOPLE SO YOU DON'T HAVE A SITUATION LIKE JOE AND HIS SIBLINGS DID?

SO WE REALLY HAVE A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS AND CLIENT MEETINGS JUST ABOUT FAMILY DYNAMICS AND STRUCTURE TO REALLY TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT REALLY IS GOING ON AND WHERE MAYBE SOME ISSUES COULD DEVELOP AND WE TRY TO HEAD THEM OFF AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

I'M SURE YOU DO TOO IN YOUR PRACTICE, DAN, IN THE SENSE OF WE REALLY TRY TO BE AS OPEN UPFRONT AND HONEST AS WE CAN.

WE TRY TO COUNSEL DIFFERENT SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO MAYBE INFORM PEOPLE BUT NOT GIVE THEM THE COMPLETE PICTURE.

IT REALLY JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE SHARING SOMETIMES FAMILIES ARE SO SECRETIVE THAT MOM AND DAD NEVER WANTED THE KIDS INVOLVED IN ANY OF THIS AND THERE'S NOT MUCH WE CAN DO BEYOND THAT.

IT JUST ALL COMES OUT AFTER SOMEBODY'S PASSED.

BUT IF PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO HAVE SOME CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHY THERE'S THIS KIND OF CONFLICT WITHIN THE FAMILY, WE TRY TO ENCOURAGE THAT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE IT'S MUCH BETTER WHEN EVERYBODY'S HERE.

EVERYBODY CAN PARTICIPATE AND TRY TO MAYBE RESOLVE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AHEAD OF TIME FROM CONVERSATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD AGAIN WITH PROBATE JUDGE HOW HE SAID SOMETIMES THE DECISIONS THAT HE HAS TO MAKE IN COURT ARE LITTLE ONES IN THE WHOLE SCHEME OF THINGS.

I MEAN THEY'RE NOT ARGUING OVER WHO GETS THE LAKE COTTAGE OR WHO GETS THE NEW CAR OR FARM THAT THEY BOUGHT.

THEY'RE ARGUING OVER WHO I THINK HE GAVE THE EXAMPLE WHO GETS THE TEA SET THAT GREAT GRANDMA BOUGHT IN NIAGARA FALLS IN NINETEEN THIRTY TWO, YOU KNOW.

YES, BECAUSE THE EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT KNOW ABOUT ADVICE FROM YOU DAN FOR SITUATIONS.

WELL THAT IS THE MOST FREQUENT I THINK IT'S SITUATIONS I FIND WHERE THE CHILDREN ARE ALL UPSET WITH EACH OTHER.

WHEN IS IT WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT WE CALL THE TANGIBLE PERSONAL PROPERTY AND IT IS THERE ARE KEEPSAKES OR ANTIQUES THAT ARE THINGS THAT THE PERSON WHO MAYBE DRAFTED THE WILL AND I DON'T MEAN THE LAWYER BUT MAYBE THE LAWYER DIDN'T PUT SOMETHING IN THERE ABOUT HOW THOSE ARE TO BE DIVIDED OR THE PARENT JUST OMITTED TO MAKE ANY DECISION ABOUT HIM IN INDIANA.

WHAT YOU CAN DO IS IS YOU CAN HAVE WHAT'S CALLED A PERSONAL PROPERTY MEMORANDUM WHERE YOU CAN DESIGNATE THE PERSON THE OBJECT YOU WANT THAT PERSON TO GET AND YOU CAN GO THROUGH ALL OF YOUR VALUABLE OBJECTS AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE SPECIFIED AND THAT TAKES AWAY JUST ATTACHING YOUR WELL VANITY WELL, YOU KEEP IT GOING.

YOU CAN DO IT ONGOING.

CORRECT.

SO WHEN YOU EXECUTE A WILL IT'S VERY FORMAL.

YOU HAVE TO BE YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWO IMPARTIAL WITNESSES WITNESS THE WILL AND SO YOU CAN'T JUST AMEND A WILL FROM TIME TO TIME WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE FORMALITY OF HAVING TWO WITNESSES.

SO WITH THE PERSONAL PROPERTY MEMORANDUM, INDIANA LAW ALLOWS YOU TO ADJUST THAT AS FREQUENTLY AS YOU WANT WITHOUT HAVING TO EVEN HAVE A WITNESS.

YOU JUST NEED TO SIGN THE MEMORANDUM AND LEAVE IT SO IT CAN BE FOUND AT YOUR DEATH AND AS LONG AS YOUR WILL SAYS THAT YOU MAY DO THIS THAT YOU MIGHT LEAVE A MEMORANDUM, IT'S VALID.

OH, THAT'S INTERESTING.

I DID NOT KNOW THAT.

SO IN THE WILL THAT CAN BE A GENERAL STATEMENT, RIGHT.

THAT ATTACHES A MEMORANDUM OF PERSONNEL AND THEY CAN CHANGE IT FROM YOU KNOW, ONE DAY LEAVE A CAR TO SOMEONE YOU'RE MAD THEM LEAVE IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE NEXT DAY.

EXACTLY.

BUY SOMETHING NEW AND YOU GOT TO DECIDE WHO'S RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, I THINK MAYBE SOMETIMES IF THE FAMILIES CAN WORK TOGETHER LIKE JESSICA'S IDEAL THAT THEY CAN HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS TOGETHER AND SAY EVEN WHILE THE PARENTS STILL LIVING AND SAY ALL RIGHT, YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE MOM'S TRINA AND AND I'LL TAKE THE SILVERWARE OR YOU KNOW, WALK AROUND.

WE DO FIND THIS IS MINE.

THIS IS FUN.

YEAH.

A LOT OF TIMES THE PARENTS WILL DO THAT.

THEY WILL IN THEIR LIFETIME.

SURE.

SIT DOWN WITH THE CHILDREN AND SAY THIS IS HOW I WANT TO DIVIDE EVERYTHING.

IS THAT OK WITH YOU GUYS?

RIGHT.

AND A LOT OF TIMES THEY'LL ACTUALLY MAKE THE DIVISION WHILE THEY'RE STILL LIVING IF THEY DON'T REGULARLY USE AND HAPPILY SO.

AND UNFORTUNATELY FROM WHAT I HEAR A LOT OF TIMES IS THE KIDS DON'T WANT TO THINK MOM'S TRYING TO GIVE TO THEM LIKE NO NOBODY HAS DINNER PARTIES ANYMORE.

I DON'T WANT CHINA, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.

WELL, A LOT OF THINGS TO WORK OUT.

ALL RIGHT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT PROBATED WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING PROBATED AND AN ESTATE BEING OPEN, JESSICA?

WELL, WE'VE TOUCHED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS ALREADY BUT BASICALLY WHAT IT MEANS IS SOMETIMES WHEN YOU HAVE A SMALL ESTATE WHAT YOU ARE REALLY JUST DOING IS FILING THE WILL WITH THE COURT TO MAKE IT A MATTER OF RECORD.

YOU'RE NOT OPENING A FORMAL ESTATE ADMINISTRATION AS DAN DESCRIBED EARLIER WORK GOT THE WHOLE THE WHOLE KIT AND CABOODLE, SO TO SPEAK OF NOTICE IN THE PAPER YOU'VE GOT THE INVENTORY CLOSINGS STATEMENTS THAT THE WHOLE THE WHOLE NINE YARDS SO TO SPEAK WHEN YOU'RE JUST PROBATING THE WELL YOU'RE SIMPLY FILING AT WILL WITH THE COURT THE COUNTY THAT THE PERSON PASSED AWAY IN AND MAKING THAT MATTER THE WILL A MATTER OF RECORD OK THAT MAKES SENSE.

OK LADY BIRD DEED I'VE HEARD THAT TERM BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS.

WELL LADY BIRD DEED IS ACTUALLY A TERM THAT'S USED IN OTHER STATES THAN INDIANA BUT IT'S VERY SIMILAR.

IN FACT I DON'T KNOW THAT INDIANA LAWYERS EVEN REFER TO IT AS A LADY.

I HAVE NOT HEARD IT BEFORE BUT IT IS A WAY OF SETTING UP REAL ESTATE TO GO NON PROBATE THAT IS NOT GOING THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM IF YOU PASS AWAY OWNING REAL ESTATE, HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

WELL, THE WAY YOU DO IT IS YOU ACTUALLY PREPARE A DEED A LAWYER WOULD PREPARE A DEED FOR THAT PERSON WHERE THEY ESSENTIALLY RESERVE A LIFE ESTATE IN THE PROPERTY SO THE PARENT CAN IN MY AREA PARTICULARLY YEARS AGO VERY POPULAR AMONG FARMERS WAS TO CREATE A LIFE ESTATE IN THEIR FARM WITH THE REMAINDER INTEREST IN THEIR CHILDREN AND DURING THE LIFE OF THE FATHER OR PARENT WHO WAS THE FARMER, HE WOULD HAVE ALL OF THE RIGHTS TO THE PROPERTY IF IT GENERATED RENT HE'D GET THE RENT, GET LIVE THERE.

YOU COULD DO WHATEVER YOU WANT BUT WHEN HE PASSES AWAY IT AUTOMATICALLY GOES TO THE CHILDREN AND THEY CAN SET THAT UP DURING THEIR LIFETIME THEN RIGHT.

OK, RIGHT.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG ADVANTAGES IS THAT IT AVOIDS THEREFORE THE FARM IT COULD BE WORTH SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS AND IT WILL NOT GO PROBATE.

THE DEED GETS RECORDED WITH THE COUNTY RECORDER'S OFFICE AND SO WHEN THE PARENT PASSES AWAY THE PROPERTY VESTS AND WHAT WE CALL THE REMAINDER IS AT WHAT YOU WOULD CALL TRANSFER ON DEATH THEN WELL THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONCEPT AND THAT'S MORE I WOULD SAY MORE POPULAR IN INDIANA AS A TRANSFER ON DEATH.

ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IF YOU DO A DEED WHERE YOU RESERVE A LIFE ESTATE, IF YOU DECIDE YOU WANT TO SELL THE FARM, YOU'VE GOT TO GET THE KIDS TO AGREE AND IF YOU SELL IT THEN YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DIVIDE THE PROCEEDS FROM THE SALE WITH THE KIDS BECAUSE THEY HOLD THE REMAINDER INTEREST AND YOU ONLY HOLD THE LIFE ESTATE WITH A TRANSFER ON DEED OR DEATH DEED.

THAT DEED MERELY SAYS THAT IF I STILL OWN THIS REAL ESTATE AT MY DEATH THEN SNEEZE AGAIN.

I'M ALLERGIC TO ELIMINATE HERE SO SO THE TRANSFER ON DEATH DEED WILL SAY ON MY DEATH IF I STILL OWN THIS REAL ESTATE IT WILL INVEST IN MY CHILDREN DURING THE LIFETIME OF THE PARENT THEN THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THE PROPERTY WITHOUT HAVING ANY ANY INVOLVEMENT OF THEIR CHILDREN IF THEY DECIDE OTHERWISE IT'S LIKE A PAY ON DEATH BANK ACCOUNT.

IF THERE'S NO MONEY IN THE BANK ACCOUNT AT YOUR DEATH, WILL YOUR BENEFICIARIES DON'T GET ANYTHING?

IS IT GOOD TO HAVE A PANEL ON DEATH OR TRANSFER ON DEATH?

JESSICA, IT'S SOMETIMES DEPENDS ON YOUR GOALS REALLY.

THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WHY WHEN WE FIRST START TALKING WITH CLIENTS ABOUT WHAT THEIR STATE PLANNING GOALS ARE, WE REALLY WANT TO KNOW THAT BECAUSE IF YOU'RE REALLY, TRULY TRYING TO AVOID PROBATE SOMETIMES TAKING ALL OF YOUR COUNTS EITHER JOIN OWNER OR BENEFICIARY OR PAYABLE ON DEATH TRANSFER ON DEATH IS SOMETIMES A WAY TO GO.

BUT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT'S NOT REALLY THAT BENEFICIAL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THE BILLS GET PAID AND NOT ONE CHILD IS PAYING THE BILLS OVER ANOTHER CHILD FOR INSTANCE, IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE BEST IDEA TO MAKE A BANK ACCOUNT OR A HOUSE PAYABLE ON DEATH OR TRANSFER ON DEATH BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS IS WHEN YOU PASS AWAY THAT MONEY OR THAT ASSET VESS IN THOSE CHILDREN AS SOON AS YOU SAY SURE.

AND SO THE KIDS AREN'T NECESSARILY OBLIGATED TO EQUALLY SHARE AND MAYBE A BILL OF YOURS ARE AN EXPENSE OF YOURS.

SO IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT CREDITORS BEING PAID OR UTILITIES OR INSURANCE AND THINGS LIKE THAT BEING PAID ON YOUR HOME EQUALLY PRIOR TO IT BEING SOLD OR WHATEVER IS HAPPENING WITH THAT PARTICULAR ASSET, IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE BEST THING TO MAKE IT PAYABLE ON DEATH BECAUSE YOU MAY NOT HAVE KIDS THAT AGREE ON THOSE EXPENSES.

WE GO BACK TO THE FAMILIES AGAIN, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS BIG ISSUES.

I'VE HEARD THAT THAT YOU NEED TO WAIT FOUR OR FIVE DAYS AFTER SOMEBODY STAFF AND YOU TOUCHED ON THIS BEFORE AS FAR AS WAITING PERIOD BEFORE YOU WOULD CLOSE AN ACCOUNT.

IS THAT RIGHT OR HOW TO STAY WELL UNDER THE SMALL STATE STATUTE UNDER THE PROBATE CODE IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE PROBATE ASSETS ARE LESS THAN FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

OK, LET'S SAY MOM HAS A BANK ACCOUNT WITH TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS AND THAT'S BASICALLY ALL SHE HAD AT HER DEATH.

YEAH, THAT WOULD BE A SMALL ESTATE.

WELL ONE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE SMALL ESTATE IS THAT WHOEVER THEY ARE IS RIGHTFULLY ENTITLED TO THAT MONEY AFTER THE DEATH HAS TO WAIT FORTY FIVE DAYS BEFORE THEY CAN PRESENT WHAT'S CALLED A SMALL ESTATE AFFIDAVIT TO THE BANK THAT BASICALLY SAYS MY MOTHER DIED.

SHE HAD LESS THAN FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS OF PROBATE ASSETS.

I'M ENTITLED TO THESE ASSETS AND THE BANK WILL RELEASE THE MONEY TO THAT PERSON AND THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO ALSO NOTIFY ANY OF THE OTHER BENEFICIARIES WHO ARE ENTITLED TO A SHARE OF THAT AND IT BECOMES THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO DIVIDE THE MONEY SO THE FORTY FIVE DAY WAITING PERIOD IS EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH FORMAL COURT ADMINISTRATION, THERE'S THAT PERIOD OF TIME WHERE YOU HAVE TO WAIT AND I THINK IT'S LARGELY TO LET CREDITORS HAVE A CHANCE SO THERE'S NO WAY TO SEND THE BILLS RIGHT.

HOWEVER, IT'S JUST SO COMPLICATED.

JESSICA, WITH YOUR GREAT WISDOM HERE, AN EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF TO GIVE PEOPLE ADVICE ON HOW TO AVOID SOME OF THESE ISSUES AND AND TO MAKE THAT WHOLE TRANSITION TRANSITION I GUESS IS A GOOD WORD TO PUT IT EASIER A MORE SIMPLE PLAN AHEAD REALLY IT SOUNDS SIMPLE BUT REALLY, TRULY PLANNING AHEAD IS THE KEY.

I KNOW THESE CAN BE REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS.

IT'S HARD FOR EVERYBODY TO THINK ABOUT THEIR HASSANE TO THINK ABOUT LEAVING THEIR LOVED ONES.

BUT THE MORE YOU PLAN AHEAD, THE EASIER IT IS FOR THAT TRANSITION, THE EASIER IT IS FOR YOUR FAMILY, THE MORE COMFORT YOU ACTUALLY FEEL AS LIFE PROGRESSES FOR YOU OR WHATEVER ILLNESS YOU MAY BE EXPERIENCING.

IT REALLY DOES TAKE A WEIGHT OFF OF YOUR SHOULDERS.

SO PLAN AHEAD, KNOW WHERE YOUR ASSETS ARE, KNOW HOW THEY'RE TITLED AND KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH THEM AND THEN SPEAK TO AN ATTORNEY ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN AND ANY CONCERNS YOU'VE GOT ABOUT YOUR FAMILY, MAKE SURE YOU TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT.

YEAH.

AND IF YOU HAVE MADE DECISIONS ON WHO'S GOING TO BE YOUR YOUR PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE OR HANDLE THOSE FINANCES OR MAYBE EVEN ASK THAT CHILD OR WHOMEVER IT IS TO GO WITH YOU WHILE YOU'RE STILL LIVING TO YOUR FINANCIAL ADVISOR OR YOUR ATTORNEY.

SO THEY HAVE BEGIN TO SET UP A RELATIONSHIP.

YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.

YOU HAVE 15 SECONDS TO GIVE ADVICE.

CAN YOU DO WELL, I WOULD JUST ECHO WHAT JESSICA SAYS.

PLAN AHEAD.

THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO TO PREPARE.

OK, ALL RIGHT.

GOOD ADVICE AND I WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU AT HOME FOR WATCHING NOW WE ALWAYS ENJOY SO MUCH TO SHARE INFORMATION HERE ON LIFE AHEAD ON PBS FORT WAYNE AND WE'LL BE DOING THAT AGAIN OF COURSE EVERY WEDNESDAY NIGHT AT SEVEN THIRTY.

MEANWHILE, A GREAT APPRECIATION FOR JESSICA DAWSON AND DAN LEININGER FOR YOUR LEGAL WISDOM.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK