The Regional Chamber of Northeast Indiana.

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The Rogers Company has been conducting business in northeast Indiana since 1944 as Rogers Markets and now as The Rogers Company with commercial property and real estate development.

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in an unprecedented and contentious mid cycle redistricting vote, the Indiana Senate rejected the implementation of new district maps in advance of the upcoming midterm elections.

>> How we got here and what's next as well as what's ahead for the twenty twenty sixth legislative session right now on prime time.

Hello everyone.

Welcome to Prime Time.

I'm your host at Leon H.B.

Ten thirty to the controversial redistricting plan that would have changed Indiana's voting maps has been voted down 31 to 19 in the Senate.

But the road to that no vote has been at times bitter and ripe with national implications.

Joining me to discuss that issue and other priorities for the twenty twenty six legislative session are the party leaders of the Indiana House from District 79, the Republican majority floor leader Matt Laman and from District 80, the minority leader of the Democratic caucus Phil Geia Quintel.

>> Welcome gentlemen.

Thank you.

It's nice to be here.

All right.

So Matt, I want to start with you.

How would you characterize what happened in the last two weeks?

>> What happened in that session?

Well, it's probably easy to say unprecedented.

Yeah.

Is the first thing I'd probably say.

I think it's been an interesting dynamic of just looking at how we got to this place.

I think if you can go back and look at history, you can go back and look at how we went from this position to this position to this position.

But at the end of the day I think what the momentum was growing was it starts here then this state than this state in this day and you kind of see that I don't see the ball rolling down the hill approach but we kind of got to where you know, you have to say OK, you can't you can't there's different can we do this or should we do this right.

>> I think that was kind of right at times was you know, we can Islay is constitutional and all the Supreme Court rulings.

>> But then you really get more of the debate of what long term effects might that have.

And so I think when we as a house looked at this, you know, I'll be the first to say I voted against it was going to ask is it fair to ask how you vote?

>> Yeah.

Yeah, I voted no and I was pretty clear with my my caucus and a lot of constituents asked me and I said I feel like I got to look at Indiana as the majority leader.

I look at my caucus and say how do I continue to maintain and with all due respect to the minority, how do I maintain that majority and I've said it from the floor is we focus on policy, not politics.

And so I think that's what's got us here.

I want to continue that.

We need to focus in on policy and I felt like our caucus needed to stay focused on that and I'm sure some of the ramifications had this gone through would have had maybe a detrimental effect on our caucus.

>> Yeah.

How did you feel when the vote came down?

Were you happy?

>> Yeah, I mean happy.

I mean I can I can make the argument kind of both ways here .

I think as we've talked before that when you look at history you look at the stage was set and I think if you look at the map and you look at a map and northeast the whole north and northeast corner of the United States in fact you had the representation you Matt you mentioned the maps.

We do have the maps.

If the booth can throw those up these are on the left side is the is the current map the current voting districts and on the right we have what was proposed it affected it certainly affected your your districts as well.

>> Right.

In fact in all of them I think what you're what you're seeing there is unfortunately you can say the one on the right is what we're seeing in multiple states and I think the one on the left I thought when we did this three years ago I know it wasn't you guys voted for it three years ago but I felt like we did a pretty good job and that's why I went to the floor three years ago and said these are fair maps.

Yeah, these are good maps and I think that's why I stuck with what I agreed to and you know, three years ago and you know and I said out on the bike three years ago I meant it and that's why I voted the way I did.

>> Phil, your thoughts on on on on the on the sessions this early session?

>> Yeah, well I mean look it was fairly contentious at times that doesn't explain the Band-Aid yet we sit across the swings but unfortunately I had a little issue this afternoon doctor's office but we're all good.

>> Yeah, no I mean I was thinking that it it feels like in one sense we just got done with a long session because this topic and this discussion started at the end of July 1st of August and and then now here we are in December and of course most long session to our long session go approximately four months.

So it's been an interesting journey.

I I think the thing I've been most impressed though is the engagement that the public has had on yes.

We've had a number of town halls my caucus members took to get feedback and to hear from folks.

Obviously there have been rallies but I think the main thing is we've tried like we do on a lot of issues as basically say hey, let your voice and your opinion be known.

>> Call your local reps and senators and tell them how you feel.

And by the way, that's an excellent Segway for me.

I want to remind our audience that prime time is your direct connection to your elected officials.

They're right here.

Our phone lines are open right now for your questions and comments at 866- (969) 27 two zero 866- (969) 27 two zero from each of you.

Why do you think that lost?

>> Why do you think it was defeated?

Well, I think if you if you watched any of the Senate debate yesterday, I think you heard from those who ultimately voted no and divided it was that they were listening to their constituents.

I think overwhelmingly they heard from the people in their districts who said we don't think this is a good idea.

I think it has I mean again not to go deeper in the weeds and we won't is there some potential ramifications across the United States in fair representation in Congress?

>> But again, I think they looked at as is I'm not here to what you heard from them.

My question was I'm not here to argue on behalf of what should happen in Congress.

I represent the people my Senate district.

Same thing on the House side.

So I think they overwhelmingly heard from their district that this is not something they want to pursue and they voted accordingly with some of it.

The the idea that the or the sense that this was kind of imposed on to Indiana level I mean you can you can honestly say that there was that that was not pressure.

>> But but at the end of the day I think, you know, we're all we all look at this as you know, I'm I'm not elected to represent an entity I'm representing like sixty eight thousand people in district seventy nine .

Right.

And so I listen to them and listen to what I want.

I think they want us to do.

And overwhelmingly I heard from people was this is just not the right time to do this.

Phil, your thoughts on the tenor of the whole thing?

There have been threats.

There have been yeah.

Yeah.

Kind of ugly at times.

Yeah.

You know, like most issues that you come across, there's no one reason why you might vote yes or no on an issue.

I do think and I said this many times I do think as legislators Hoosiers in general I think we're pretty pretty independent bunch and we want to make up our own minds.

We don't want anyone telling us what to do or how to do especially anyone coming from D.C.

You know, we're going to we're going to kind of do what we want to do and vote the way we think it's best particularly ,you know, comes what comes to our constituents.

Yeah.

You know, I've heard and seen I wasn't the recipient of any of these but there have been plenty of members that were totally uncalled for out of bounds.

The speaker and I did a joint statement a couple of weeks ago calling for the saying that hey look, this is not where it should be and we shouldn't be folks people should not be engaging these sorts of tactics and that probably hurt the cause more than help that these folks that are making these threats think that's going to help.

You're absolutely wrong.

I think frankly legislators are going to dig in even more, dig their heels even more with when they start to receive threats like that.

>> Right.

Well, there has been I don't know if it's a threat but there is the there's talk of , you know, eventual punishing of legislators that did not vote this way either with you know, by being primaried or you know, not having access to funds and you know, from PACs, et cetera.

Are you concerned about that at all that?

>> No, I think I would say that's the political side of all this.

And you know, again, I want to stay focused on the policy side of this.

I think we to deal with that.

I think there's going to be some issues that we're going have to deal with as a caucus when it comes to primaries potentially and other issues.

But again, you know, we have a litany of things that I think Hoosiers have asked us to focus on.

You know, talking to one gentleman who was very adamant that, you know, we do this and we do this and I said I think if you take your little pad of paper and you go over to the gas station and you ask the public do we redistrict and then ask them are they paying, you know, more for groceries and energy and things?

>> Right.

And what do you want me to focus on?

I think this is going to be very guided towards find out what's what's hitting Hoosiers artist and that's what we tried to focus on over the last couple of years and I think I hope we continue to do that so we'll deal with what happens and it's all that's the political side of it.

>> Well and so is the issue put to bed now at this point?

>> Well, it is for the twenty six session the governor call us back in special session over the summer or something like that.

You know we're going to be well into election season so I don't think that will happen.

I have no idea about next year or twenty twenty eight or those know now you're getting pretty close to when we're going to draw the maps again.

Twenty thirty one.

Right.

Time flies when you're having fun on this and then we're getting getting close because we have to do it again anyway in twenty thirty one when the new census numbers are in and things like that so I'm guessing it's probably done.

>> Yeah well now that that's off the table the legislative session resumes in January.

>> What are we looking forward to in terms of policies and priorities for you?

Well, like I said, I think I think our caucus is going to focus on what we've tried to focus on in the past several years.

I think health care issues, health care cost issues in the state of Michigan have been an issue I think where I come from rural area rural hospitals to make sure we're protecting our rural hospitals.

And so I think that's still going to be an issue.

We passed several pieces of legislation last couple of years are now distorted to kind of take root and take effect.

I think we're seeing some positive of that.

I think also we're going to have issues around just how called the kitchen table issues of energy costs.

You know, we went from one of the top one, the cheapest in the nation to now one of the somewhere in the middle maybe.

And so I think we have to make sure we don't let that continue to drift out of control.

So I think there's a couple of issues there and you always have the issues around housing and just in economic development, you know, we've had you know, from the gas pedal on that for several years and I think we've done some really good things in Indiana.

I just we need to keep that going.

I want to talk about several of those.

But Phil, I want give you a chance to to what what are your priorities?

>> Yeah, sure.

You know, when we if going back up just a couple months ago two , three months ago and we were called into special session.

Yes.

It was kind start November four, something like that our focus was hey, it's fine.

You know, Governor calling us in for a special session but we don't think we should go there and talk about redistricting.

We think we should do go to talk about really we agree with Matt.

>> The issues that really do are more to Hoosiers and that's this kind of affordability cause the issues that we've been really all over the country actually something I talked about even in my little opening talk last January.

So we'll continue to talk about that again.

I mean one one of the issues is is the cost of child care and it's been disappointing to see just had a child care facility in my district announced that they were closing at the end of this year and so there's and that has to do with the vouchers and things like that that unfortunately had not been extended anyway.

So we had some ideas and we actually tried to put the bring those forward in last week when when we were in session.

You know, we're successful but we're continuing to push for ways to lower health care costs, utility costs, the child care issue, health care, you know, all these things that we think are important to Hoosiers.

>> Yeah, it's interesting to hear listen to you guys and you know, we come off of these bare bare knuckle political discussion and and look at you know and now you're talking about things that are you know, these are these are these are kitchen table issues like like you said let's talk about health care because that seems to be such a you know, such a difficult nut to crack what talk you know, tell me a little bit about the things that you have put in place.

What do you see as something what new policies or what new you know, what new approaches can we can we look forward to?

>> Well, I think I think like everything else you you know, some things we implement and if we don't see the results immediately we seem to pivot and we make changes.

And I think two things we did last year where it's helpful to know three or for one dealt with more of the transparency and the disclosure side of things and making sure people understand their options they have as consumers etc.

And then we had 10 or four which basically said hey to to the not for profit hospitals in the state which manage the majority of care you need to make sure that your costs are fair.

>> You're in your ear seeing some reduction or possibly lose that not for profit status.

I think that really got a lot of attention.

I think what we have to do now is you know, the other side of that coin is the insurance side of it right.

And so we're seeing some things now that we have to you know, maybe go in and say hey, we're got to make sure that what is being saved here isn't isn't consumed here without getting to the end user.

>> So I think those are going to be some issues that that I mean health care hits at the heart of affordability which are you know, which means different things to different people.

So does that does that seem to square with with you?

>> Yeah.

I mean we a lot of the focus the last couple of sessions has been on hospitals and you mentioned transparency.

Hospital costs have been incurred by seeing some of the reports back from Parkview and how Health and others that they're that they're making some headway here with regards to their role in helping reduce costs.

>> It doesn't seem to be enough for people though, right?

The people's perceptions is that it's still everything's too still too expensive.

>> Well well and for sure and I think that we're going to see some other unfortunately coming down where state legislators were not federal legislators.

But there's going to be some interesting things coming up here in the next couple of weeks with health care subsidies and things like that .

So that's on the federal level.

So sometimes we have to make sure that we differentiate what we do in our responsibilities versus the responsibility of the federal government in affordability.

>> Also mentioned energy costs.

>> Talk a little bit about where we're where we're hurting.

Yes, I think it's going to lead to a lot of discussion possibly even when you get into the you know, the users of this energy and you're getting into the some of the data centers that we see popping up and there you are going to find that balance between these are these are massive job creators and economic bonuses.

But at the same time, you know, we've got to make sure we have a good balance and I think a lot of it is going to be around are we looking at alternatives as well?

We passed a bill a couple of years ago allowing for the development and the incentivizing of small nuclear.

I think if you look at where energy's going I think you can look at and I'm not I'm not always been the hugest fan of renewables but I do think if you look at solar, you know, I think we're going to get to a point where you don't need 80 acres to create X amount of megahertz that you need, you know, 10 square feet.

Right.

You know, look at your phones.

I mean with all the technology has gotten so much smaller if you get there, I think you're going to create a lot better energy grid when you start looking at some of these alternatives and I think it's a mix is going to be a mix of a lot of energy pieces that go in that and then also just making sure we're not passing the cost of some that directly to the consumer but maybe the bearing the ones are bearing some of the the brunt of that is the bigger yeah, I totally agree.

I mean I want to make sure we all do make sure that consumers are protected as much as possible.

>> So whether it's built out of data centers or nuclear, the things that we were just talking about, you know, we we want to make sure that the cost isn't the brunt of the cost isn't thrown back onto the consumers and whatever helpful help we can be into making sure that doesn't happen.

I think all the better so you know the Google that here in Fort Wayne the right Metta the Facebook down in southern Indiana, you know those they do very well.

They make a lot of money and I just want to make sure that consumers again aren't bearing the brunt of that any type of expansion or things like that.

>> And let's be fair to consumers here and making sure that corporations are paying their fair share so the you know, Maya who is one of our viewers wrote in and wanted to first of all thank you for the no vote on the redistricting and also wanted to ask a question about, you know, how the Google Data Center in here in Fort Wayne how does that factor into the high energy costs?

It is a giant consumer of electricity and and you said of job creation I don't know what creates that many jobs after it's been built but it certainly creates economic it is an economic driver.

Those centers have been known to be energy hogs.

I don't know if that's a that's a proper term for them but you know, how do you like you said, Matt, how do you balance the you know, having those and how it affects the entire ecosystem of energy?

>> Yeah, I think I think part of that is you have to also look and say is what's being built needed or used by the public?

>> Yes, yeah.

I mean we want data right.

We want data.

We want it now we want it we want A.I.

And so when you think of the fact that I may not like what they're doing exactly but I absolutely hundred percent use their stuff.

>> So if we're going to use that stuff we want their stuff then we have to make sure we're adhering to making sure that they you know, not should not be borne by the brunt of 100 percent on the consumer.

You know those industries that the ones do need to take some of that responsibility and I think I think we've heard that from them is that you know yeah, we'll work with you on that.

>> We'll work with the you know, the electrical providers, et cetera.

But I think it also goes back to what I said earlier.

I think if we we have to also give them the ability to look at multiple pieces of that puzzle.

How else do we generate electricity?

We generate power and I think long term if you can look in a crystal ball in the future is going to be you're not have you're not going to be powering those facilities the way you are today.

>> I don't think you will go through the natural gas.

I'm guessing we're going to probably have some hearings on this.

There was a public forum last night.

I was unfortunately out of conflict or unable to go.

So I'm kind of anxious to read up about that and see what happened there.

>> But I will tell you, for example, water the Google facility will use a lot of water.

Yes.

And to help which keeps the servers cool.

You know, when I think of General Motors out here, it uses a lot of water and we have plenty of water.

But that's not get that's not going to be an issue.

In fact, the fact that they're using so much water and we have the water, it's going to help spread the costs and make our rates water rates much more affordable.

So we have to go in front of the I.R.S.

for a rate increase.

It's not going to be as large because we're we're using that water and other the Googles and the and GM and other big facilities that we have here now in county that are using that water to kind of help spread that cost around to the to the to the rest of sense to actually help build.

>> Yeah.

I think that you know these are these are new businesses in many ways and I think you know, the general voter doesn't know how to do that.

You know that we've kind of figured out how to how to manage them yet they're a different kind of utility almost that well that is coming into the end of the and you think of this way is will there cooling systems change?

>> Right.

You know, we think of their technology will they figure out a way to keep their systems cooler to not consume as much energy?

>> Well, part of the controversy with Google the Google Center here has been that they they asked for three or four digital or diesel backup generators and now they want a hundred and twenty iron ore and you know you know where did that miscommunication happen?

>> Right.

So there's an oversight gap somewhere in there.

>> Are you.

Is the are you involved in that those kinds of oversights those are local boards, right?

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a lot more local.

Yeah.

Yeah.

On the state level you know I don't know about Idaho and some of those others might be involved in those government agencies not so much so the I want to bring us back not not not all the way but back to the redistricting vote that was national headlines and it you know this this vote was on the front page of The New York Times.

It was it was it is resonating now as Indiana has.

But the you know, a trend.

>> What do you think that says about Indiana that that this vote went this way?

Yeah, I mean I'll just say what I said earlier is that I do think we have legislators.

Are you an independent group?

You know, voted no.

I voted no of course.

But and you know, we've been around a little while.

>> There are some their legislators have been around a while that I believe sort of recognize my opinion the value of the institution of the state legislature and part of that is we have things to do at certain times and one of the things that we do is draw maps after the census.

So in twenty one and then again in twenty thirty one I don't think necessary.

Senator Baret was I been told wasn't necessarily lobbying his his caucus one or the other.

But I also know that my dad served with his dad , I served with his dad and I read served with me and I'm just saying he's got some connectivity connection back to those folks that have been around a while and I do believe there's some value in that in the protection of the institution and that was always one of my things as we just don't do this Medicaid you know, you brought up child care as one as one of the issues that that's important to you in the next session.

What what has been tried here and what what what new approaches can we take?

>> Well, I think you're probably going to hear about is it always a fun?

>> It does it always come down to funding?

Well, they'll be there'll be some that say, you know, are there the barriers to entry the can we let others into the into the market?

But I am concerned that the number of vouchers that have been used because we one of the things that we put up there out there last week was to extend kind of go back to where we were with the number of vouchers statewide that were money that was allocated for that because I have been told that we've seen the numbers drop and then the number of kids that are coming through behind or aren't really there.

So that's an issue going forward.

>> Yeah, we're we're about to run up against the clock here.

Any final thoughts on on either the session or the session to come?

No, I think the earlier I think the one thing I'll say kind of going back to the Indiana is is that we will focus on the things I think meet the needs affect most Hoosiers in the next session.

>> Speaking of Hoosiers with when the Rose Bowl to the national championship, even the little bit yeah.

>> Well, I'm you know, I'm fairly new to Indiana and I'm certainly struck by how this all played out.

It's it is a very independent thinking and and we like to do our own thing.

>> I don't necessarily like being in the national spotlight but that's the way it was.

Yeah.

We normally do run under the radar.

You don't see a lot about Indiana when when the session resumes, do you think there will be a lot of energy for for all the new things coming out of this redistricting vote?

>> Yeah, I mean I think we'll be back on track.

I mean I look at this and you look at other states that have done this.

They've said it's a big thing and then it kind of trickles down.

So I think by January you're going to hear a big kind of refocus back on what any does best little concern obviously that could be some hard feelings on the House floor.

>> Honestly, just because it's you know, when you when we re redrawing the map and kind of you know, getting rid of the two Democrats could cause some harm.

The feelings that we have we have important business to do.

So I hope it doesn't linger.

>> All right.

Well, listen, you guys have been terrific.

Thank you so much and welcome the book.

Thank you.

Knew my maiden voyage to start off with my voyage.

You guys you guys made it easy on me, OK?

It only goes out.

>> All right.

I want to thank my guests House Republican majority Leader Matt Laman and House Minority Leader of the Democratic Caucus filled your Quinter and thank you for watching us tonight.

>> We'll see you next time on Prime Time The Regional Chamber of Northeast Indiana.

Advocates for a world class infrastructure, a competitive business climate, 21st century talent and rural investment.

One region, one voice.

NEINAdvocates.com.

The Rogers Company has been conducting business in northeast Indiana since 1944 as Rogers Markets and now as The Rogers Company with commercial property and real estate development.

Pleased to support local not for profits and PBS Fort Wayne.