and good evening.

Thank you so much for watching LIFE Ahead on PBS for Wayne this of course is a program that is for our audience of all ages and we're going to talk about something very important tonight managing end of life affairs.

A couple of experts on hand to talk to you about that.

We have attorney Troy Kiffer.

Great to have you back on the show.

Great to be here, Mark.

>> Thank thank you.

And Jared, Stefán who is a licensed funeral director in the area.

Nice to have you.

Thanks, Mark.

Thank you.

Were on maybe what?

I think so.

Oh, a year ago.

Well, we had a great show then and we thought well let's try let's bring it back and try it again because we have a lot of ground to cover and it's a very important topic because everyone should have these thoughts at least write it down, talk to the lawyer, talk to a funeral director and maybe get some things established because that time will come but hopefully not today tomorrow next week but it will come.

So it's all part of life and that's what we're going to talk about right now.

I want to tell you to that we have a couple of ways that you can communicate to us.

It is a viewer interactive program and that means we want your questions and your comments so you can do it a couple of ways.

You can give us a call and you can be on the air.

But if you don't want to be on the air, we can transcribe your question or you can text us those two numbers on your screen right now.

Now when you text us please give us your name not necessarily a full name but your first name and the town or city from where you're calling.

We'd love to do a shout out so do that please.

During the process of the program it is public television.

>> We don't stop down for commercials.

So you have us for a whole half hour and here we go.

>> Let's go ahead and get started with you Troy.

How does elder law intersect with funeral planning and why is this connection important for the families?

Yeah, I think the intersection with between no law and funeral planning is that when you start thinking about one it opens that door.

You know, it is somewhat of a difficult topic obviously for people to think about their end of life and once they work up the courage to start thinking about that and they start thinking about wills and that eventually leads to also funeral planning and planning a funeral, what roles does a funeral home or a funeral director have to perform?

Yeah, so most funeral homes they offer that as a free service.

They they open their doors to the public to come in and just basically start to have a conversation about the end of life planning about funeral arrangements or even gathering some information that we use to help complete things like the death certificate or the obituary.

And so yeah, we see every day the importance of having the planning done ahead of time.

It makes a difficult time much easier and and so we do our very best just to try to again accommodate people that want to come and talk about it.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Funeral directors have a tough job and you know we have to have them but most of the ones I've met in my life have been very compassionate and very understanding.

>> I want to go to you, Troy, about the legal documents.

What documents should actually be in place to to ensure a seniors funeral wishes are going to be honored?

>> Yeah, well, they're actually a couple of things.

There is a funeral planning declaration and that's a specific document that's recognized by state law and it allows a person not only to designate their wishes but to appoint somebody who can make decisions on things maybe that they hadn't foreseen and another document that was really relatively new is an appointment a health care representative and that entire area of law was revamped a few years ago and it specifically includes that you can appoint someone to make funeral decisions for you after you passed.

Oh, great.

Great.

And Jared, from your perspective since we're talking about this, what legal information the family's most often misunderstand or misinterpret when they come a funeral home to preplan?

>> Yeah, I think where people get tripped up sometimes they they there's some confusion is more when a death occurs and a lot of times there if there is conflict within a family or if someone the family has been estranged just because that happens it doesn't take where they they're rights to make the funeral arrangements.

So when when a family gets things in order and talks with an attorney like Troy, they can get those they can they can appoint who they want and so that really helps us out a lot when that happens.

Right.

And then you're talking about a specific family member to see a lot of times it's a specific family member or it's it can be a friend.

It can be anyone but typically it's a it's a it's a family member.

>> Very good.

And Troy, let's talk about power of attorney because that's going to come up I'm sure a couple of times in this conversation explain how that power of attorney can assist the funeral planning and the execution of it.

>> Well, I think while a person's life the power of attorney allows you to appoint someone else to make decisions for you in the event that you're not able to that you're incapacitated absent otherwise not able to make those decisions and as part of that broad reaching power, the person named in the power of attorney can do preplanning and make those decisions for the person who is incapacitated.

>> OK, and the the role of excuse me the living will how does that play at the end of life?

>> Yeah.

In Indiana that's a complicated question.

Yeah.

And but a living will really talks about that last deathbed decision.

So the doctors said that you know, there's little chance of recovery perhaps the person's only being kept alive with machines and the living will allow someone to decide ahead of time that if that ever happens that they would like to have that treatment withheld that they be allowed to pass away naturally and we're not using so much of a living will but guiding people towards that appointment of health care.

Representative that I mentioned earlier.

Yes.

And giving them the authority to make that decision rather than just a cold piece of paper.

>> Right.

That you signed 15 years ago.

Give that decision to the person that you trust can get the most current information from your doctors and they know what you want because they've talked to you about it over the past number of years.

So in my opinion that's a better way to go then than just a one page living will.

>> And you mentioned sometimes they do it fifteen years ago.

Is it necessary to update that once every couple of years or so maybe talk to the attorney and just especially if they have any changes or they change their mind?

>> There are a couple of times that I advise people to talk to their attorney when it comes to estate documents the first time is any life change.

So birth death, divorce, you know, any moving especially to another state.

Those are all good opportunities to speak with an attorney and then other than that it's just a good practice to meet every couple of years just to make sure that the law hasn't changed and negatively affected your documents.

True.

And you may have an attorney look at it and explain it to you and realize that it doesn't say what you thought it said.

>> OK, and Jared, how do you funeral homes work with elder law attorneys to protect the client's wishes?

>> Yeah, well again, just by well we communicate a lot and the documents that they draw up a lot of times when a family comes and speaks to us about preplanning, we'll take those documents as well.

We'll put them in their file those that pertain to us as a funeral home.

And so yeah, there's a there's a lot of communication and just making sure that the family's taken care of .

>> Right.

And somebody has the power of attorney that is really important as well.

>> It's I correct specifically a health care power of attorney or health care.

Representative Troy mentioned the newer document but yes, there it goes in the file and of course when the time comes it's all there.

>> Yes.

All right.

And I want to ask you about the family's pre arranging or prefunding funerals and to ensure the compliance of Medicaid regulations we're getting into a whole different ball field when it comes to Medicaid.

>> So how does all that work?

Yeah, Medicaid is that program that people often use to pay for long term care.

So often nursing home care and it is a means tested program meaning they can only have a certain amount of assets that they own and sometimes people have heard of a spend down period.

Yes.

Get down to that level and part that could be pre arranging for your funeral and preplanning for because definitely that is an expense that Medicaid provides for and I think really encourages people through their policy to follow through with that Medicaid interfere or affect any type of for instance the wills someone has.

Does that have any effect in it?

I mean is there a limit of money that can be spent for funerals when it comes to Medicaid?

Well, there there is and for that reason I think we direct people and injured.

You can jump in because I think you probably talk to people more about this side than I do but we direct people more towards funeral planning trusts because there isn't that limit that you can spend it as long as you've identified the services and you can prepay using that type of trust and it takes that generally takes that cap off of what can be spent on a funeral.

>> Yeah, there is a cap in fact I've heard of families wanting to pitch in more money to maybe do more for a funeral and sometimes I think isn't there a cap when it comes to the Medicaid with they offer well when not in the pre planning.

>> So when someone comes to us and they want to ultimately prepay their funeral, they can there's cap the money would goes though into a funeral trust.

So when someone comes and pays their funeral they're not writing a check to a funeral home.

They're actually writing a check to a trust company where the money is held until the death occurs.

So when it's done in that fashion there isn't a cap.

It's typically the cap is more after after death occurs and someone is on Medicaid without a prepaid oh OK.

>> I see.

Yes.

Are in line.

Yes.

If you're just tuning in we are talking about managing end of life affairs here on LIFE Ahead the phone numbers to call or text are on your screen of course give us your name and the location you're calling from when you give us a text.

>> We appreciate that and a very interesting topic tonight because a lot people don't want to think about this and it's sometimes tragic because at the end of life if a person hasn't discussed what they want as far as their funeral plans, well then that leaves the family kind of hanging as to what dad or mom or whoever the loved one is.

>> So the preplanning aspect is so important not only financially but just just for peace of mind.

I would I would think we have a call coming in.

In fact, James is calling and he's asking the earliest age you have to see someone healthy prepare a will and I'm reading that right earliest you have seen over the earliest stage you've seen someone healthy prepare a will.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

There we go.

>> Yeah, that's a good question.

Yeah.

Typically there are three stages in life where we see people really think about preparing their wills.

We have typically when someone gets married and they have children they start thinking about the children and think Oh well we better go see an attorney to make sure that if something happens to us that the guardians our children are people that we choose the second time that people really start thinking about it as a little later about retirement age they start looking at their wills and realize that they have that guardian language in there and their thirty year old son saying they have to go live with their their uncle.

That's a good sign that probably needs to be updated.

And then finally about twenty years later, late seventies early eighties people are really starting to face end of life and so they want to make things make sure things are all in order.

But me personally probably the earliest I've seen is maybe twenty four .

OK, twenty three twenty four perhaps yeah.

And there really is no age limit on it and people unfortunately pass away at all ages and depending on the level of assets that a person has it may make sense to do it that early and I would think that especially if you got married and started having children that would be a key time no matter how young you are, a key time to at least talk about and get something in writing.

>> Absolutely.

All right.

Yes.

Jared hinging on that, how can funeral homes assist families and understanding and complying with the state laws and regulations related to funerals in the States?

>> Yeah, well, I think just simply by by sitting down with with either a prearrangement advisor prior or of course when a death does occur you'll be sitting down with a funeral director that is is very much aware of the laws and they can kind of walk you through all of those questions and steps.

>> Yeah.

And I know most funeral homes nowadays have at least one person on hand who specializes in the preplanning.

>> Yes.

Yeah, that's a great thing.

That's a great thing.

Absolutely.

I have another text coming in.

It's I don't have a name on it but that's OK.

It says Can you change power of attorney if you decide you want someone different and what is the process try.

>> Yeah well it looks like that's Tom from Columbia City.

>> Oh I didn't see that.

Yeah I want to make sure OK.

Tom from Columbia, S.C.

thank you for texting that OK sure.

He got his moment of fame for texting and I appreciate that.

No, that is a good question and there are two things that you need to do if you want to update a power of attorney, the first thing is create a new power of attorney and it will have in their language that says that you revoke any previous powers of attorney that you might have signed.

In addition to that, if the person in a previous power of attorney knew they were power of attorney, you have to notify them as well.

Typically in writing a lot of people a power of attorney is just a document and waiting.

>> It's not actually being used and they haven't really notified the person they've named.

So in that case, you know, notice is really not required.

But if that person knows about it and they're actively working on your behalf then they need to receive that notice in writing.

>> All right.

And the options available for low income seniors to fund their funeral expenses and let's talk if we can aside from Medicaid, what other options are there?

>> But that's that's a good question and I'm not sure that yeah, I know there are options for people who are destitute but I don't know if you encounter that more often.

>> Yeah, not not not a lot.

Well, aren't there ways though when someone wants to plan a funeral, isn't there some sort of an insurance situation where people can pay and make payments?

>> They can there are yes.

There are definitely options.

So when you prepay a funeral there are you can you can set it up on a monthly payment.

You can yeah.

And you can stretch that out three five ten years and so that can lower the payment.

>> Yes.

And so after a funeral after or I should say after a death occurs then the payment options aren't as as lenient as before.

Right planning right.

Yes.

So the earlier you preplan I think the premiums would be a little lower.

>> Yes.

Would they be OK?

All right, Karen Karen has Texas actually called us and she's offline?

She wants us to ask this question does Medicaid pay for funeral services and if so, how much?

>> And we talked a little bit about that earlier in the show.

>> But do you have any figures for how much Medicaid will offer?

Yeah, so Medicaid so there's I'll first start with this there's a lot of people on Medicaid.

Not everyone qualifies for the funeral Medicaid benefit.

So so what happens is after a death we call the Medicaid office and see if that person qualifies.

If they do, Medicaid will pay twelve hundred dollars and towards towards the funeral and then the family Medicaid allows the family to contribute up to 27 hundred dollars, OK.

And so depending on the funeral home the situation every funeral home offers maybe a little different but but typically it's it's a it's a simple funeral or maybe a simple cremation or a simple burial and so it kind of depends but but yes they do pay the twelve hundred dollars but but you have to qualify for that benefit right.

>> OK and how do you funeral homes handle situations where there's no clear directive from the deceased or their family.

>> How do you go about that?

Well ultimately it does come down to the next of kin what the next of kin would like.

And so you know, whoever was appointed that or you whoever steps forward as a family member we sit and we have a conversation and we as a funeral director we try to lay out all the options that would be best for that family and so there's a lot to consider and that's why it's so important why we tell family members please have the conversation, have the conversation with with with your parents and our grandparents and try to get some kind of information.

But usually when we're sitting with a family we can kind of help guide them on on what would be best based on like I said, a lot of the different circumstances.

>> Well, since you mentioned the family and so forth, what's what's the best way for a child of someone an elderly person especially or maybe even middle age two to approach the subject?

>> You know?

Yeah, I think I think just very lovingly I mean I think just to have an honest conversation that says hey, you know, we care about you and we care about what happens and we want to be good planners.

We want to be responsible and so let's let's have a conversation.

I know it's hard acknowledging that it might be difficult.

It might be a little awkward but let's have a conversation about what you would like so we can honor you and and it can also give us as a family the healthy grieving process that we want.

>> And so yeah, I I find that it's one of those things that people don't want to face.

It's a big scary monster under the bed.

Yes.

And people spend a lot of time and a lot of emotional energy avoiding that monster.

But I find if you if you pull out from underneath the bed and you stare it right in the face in the sunlight it helps a lot.

It's still a is still a monster but it's just not quite as scary if you face it and you talk about it and share that moment with the family, have the family help you do that?

>> I think it really helps and I will add to that Troy to Mark when when families come in on a pre planning and they're there to just talk about usually that conversation is is very light hearted prearrangement.

A lot of times I'll hear laughter coming from one of our arrangement rooms because they're they're just talking through the details and the rememberer and they're there.

It feels good to kind of get it accomplished and I you know and get it all taken care of and yeah, it can like I said, it can be very, very light hearted so well and that's a good thing.

I was going to ask you you know, there's a lot of emotions I'm sure involved when preplanning funerals you know we're talking preplanning and I know there's a lot of emotions for that need.

>> But how do you handle all those emotions?

Are you able to help people sort these things out?

>> Yeah, I think first it comes down to being a good listener.

I think second comes down to having a heart of service.

You want to serve them.

You want to come alongside them and walk with them.

I think that when people sense that it helps and for for me I feel like, you know, being stable and and trying to be calm, calm presence, it really it really helps and it allows people to grieve healthily and they feel comforted.

>> That's great.

We have another text coming in from Matthew and he is asking calling from Fort Wayne .

Good to see that.

>> Can you explain medical aid in dying and do we have it in Indiana and I'm not sure what that is pertaining to.

>> Do you happen to know Troy?

Well, I personally don't which leads me to believe that maybe we don't have it.

It is not a term I'm familiar with but I don't know if you've recognized it.

OK, I don't recognize it.

All right.

So my guess would be no but something I don't know everything something I'll look into OK.

>> Yeah we might be able to talk about that in our next show.

>> Yes.

All right.

And Troy, what advice since we only have a couple of minutes left what advice do you have for families to ensure a smooth process when planning a funeral for a loved one?

Yeah, well we really try and avoid friction and reduce opportunities for there to be uncomfortable situations and I think the pre planning getting everybody in the room and and working through that everybody knows why the decision was made .

>> I think that's probably the best way to to avoid that and help things go smoothly.

>> I'm sure as a funeral director you've had a lot of different scenarios.

You've had people preplanned who have written everything down that they want and then you have families that are coming in like playing well I won't say it that way but you'll have a table full of relatives who are going to be throwing their ideas.

>> And how do you wrangle that if you have more than one person to talk to you?

Yeah, it can be challenging.

It can again, I think it starts with just trying to listen but it also starts with just experiences good and those and leading and knowing what to say and what not to say and mostly trying to keep everyone on track.

Everyone is there for a reason and you just step by step try to lead and and and get get the planning accomplished right.

So you know we have a certain way that we try to go through and gathering information and talking about, you know, exactly what the family wants but it can it it can go a lot of different directions pretty quickly.

>> I bet it we've got to bring it back.

Well, gentlemen, we really appreciate your expertize on this and it's a topic not everybody wants to talk about but I'm glad we had this discussion.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Troicki who is an attorney and of course funeral director Jared Stefán, thank you both for joining us.

Hope to have you back again.

>> Thank you.

All right.

And remember you can watch this episode as well as other life had episodes on YouTube and our website at PBS Fort Wayne until next time all of us here wish you a great life .

Thanks so much for watching