there is less than a month as the General Assembly wraps up its work complete with two big reveals coming next week the Indiana House has been finalizing its take on property tax reform and meanwhile the Senate has been finishing up its version of the state's next two year budget.

>> Other developments under the session's spotlight so far include measures to cut the state's individual income tax to combat health care costs at not for profit hospitals and to encourage the manufacture of small modular nuclear reactors in Indiana.

>> Our weekly state house conversation is next on tonight's PrimeTime and good evening on Persons.

With us this week are Seventy Ninth District Republican state representative and House Majority Floor Leader Matt Laman and eighty 1st District Republican State Representative Martin Carbomb.

And we invite you to join us as well.

Just call in your questions and comments at the number that you see on the screen as we welcome Representative Laman Caba Matt and Martin.

>> Thank you for being here, guys.

Thank you.

So this is fun.

Appreciate it.

Another sign of forward progress Indiana lawmakers have sent Governor Mike Brown 38 bills so far and he has signed them all and that includes 20 that he signed yesterday on Thursday as the session is indeed moving forward.

>> How is it going for each of you at this point?

>> Well, I would say one of my bills is one he signed and I know it's probably well on everybody's mind is the transfer on death deeds dealing with insurance.

So I know that's going to probably light up the phones tonight.

>> Yes, I would say this I think there's been there's not been that many bills on his desk that have been the high bar stuff but it's good stuff.

I mean so I think for me personally I've took a different approach this year.

I've taken a little less of authorship and try to help navigate through some other bills.

>> But I think we're running a pretty good place come into the under yeah.

>> A couple of those one I sponsored from the Senate and one I authored got signed and they both passed yesterday actually in the Senate.

>> I was over there talking to some senators and they had they were discussing those bills and voting on them.

So I was kind of neat to be able to see it pass and head to the governor, one of those being one that's been near and dear to my heart, been working on it for a couple of years with Senator Dustan Bush.

>> The Veterans Memorial a.A Road has been generously donated from Mr. McComb's family a columbarium to have the remains of veterans that want to buy a niche.

They have had it donated but they have to put in money to a perpetual care fund up front according to current state law.

Well, after a signature now they don't have to put the up front money and we'll put in money as they sell the neches.

>> So we should be getting that new piece to what is a wonderful park out there.

I would I would encourage anybody watching if you haven't been out on the road to check out the Veterans National Memorial Shrine, a museum it's a long, long title but it's an amazing place dedicated to veterans to make sure no veteran is ever forgotten.

>> It is it is a wonderful place not being from our county.

It has been out there.

I think Martin worked on this for a number of years.

So kudos to Mark again and then that's really neat.

>> And as we are in this place where some food is ready to come from, the kitchen is fully formed.

It is ready to serve.

Some things are just about ready to be presented in front of all and that includes, as mentioned, the property tax reform legislation currently in House Ways and Means.

>> It's the Senate's bill on the House for a while.

Anything you've heard about?

Yeah, I mean I'll be up front.

I think it's taken a lot of turns.

I think it's we got to be very cautious in a way because it's a space that the state really doesn't have a piece of the pie and you might say the state of Indiana collects no property taxes.

We collect the tax distribute it right back out to the entities from which it came up.

We don't gain it.

It's not part of our budget.

So we get to be very cautious because the locals are the ones who have who have set their budgets on these taxes.

I think where the House is going is we're looking for a long term solution.

I don't think the present system we have is a good solution.

It's a levy based I think we need to get to a rate based I think what Chairman Thompson has done is put in place not that immediate reform that some people were crying for .

But I do think you're going to see a majority of Hoosiers will see their tax rate go down in twenty six and then I think going forward from there I think you'll continue to see some some better response to those tier ones or you know, ones and twos that are in those tax the tax cap sections.

So I think I think long term it's we're going to get to a good place as Austin Dunn who you know the tax caps got put into place before I ever got to the legislature and that brought about this levee system that Matt talked about.

>> And you know, it's important for people to understand on the levee system we're in a position where if one unit of government that benefits from the taxes wants to lower the rate because they've got enough money coming in that they could they could certainly lower their part of the levee.

But that doesn't mean that the tax bill changes at all and that's one of the major flaws in that system and and they could raise their levee and the numbers doesn't change.

But the other units of government like if let's say county does that than the city and schools would lose.

And so you've got this constant struggle.

>> Chairman Thompson came up to Fort Wayne and he toured the state talking to locals, US representatives but also, you know, mayors and commissioners and councilmen talking through this issue and he said we need to get to a system which I appreciate the rate based system where if you raise a tax it goes up and if you lower a tax it goes down and the people feel it and I think it just encourage more fiscal responsibility.

I think it's it's going to be a better system long term.

As Matt said, we hope to provide some short term relief.

>> That's certainly been a gold mine and I know from that.

>> But yet to be seen one thing you say about ready to come out of the kitchen with the big bills like this, we are we're still in a negotiation stage.

>> Something will come out.

We may end up in conference and have even a different version yet.

Yeah, One last question regarding property tax as of this hour today House Speaker to Houston was suggesting that lawmakers could provide more than a billion dollars in relief over the next three years.

>> Will that be enough relief for Gov.

Mike Braun and his expectations?

Great question.

Great great question.

I would if you have a minute I'll give him a call.

>> I mean I think Governor Braun and I think we're we're I think he's going to be a great governor.

But we're in a situation now where I think he has a very strong opinion on where we need to be on this right now we just have a little bit of a different opinion and ultimately than the day I think we'll work through this.

But you know, there was a there was an event that had a big kind of a protest at the state house that he participated in a little disappointing but at the same time I get it and that's the position he staked out.

And I think again, as Martin said, I think long term we all want the same thing and that is to see some movement in property taxes to go down.

>> Yeah.

The other big reveal we mentioned at the start is the Senate's take on the House budget House bill ten to one it has to come out of committee by April 10.

So there's that and as he gets ready to make its appearance.

Have you heard anything from the chamber?

>> Yeah.

I mean I think at the end of the day what we're you're hearing is is that this is probably going to be one of the tightest budgets we've had in a long time if you look at the initial forecast we get which is in the fall to which we create our budget based on that forecast we're seeing about three percent growth in revenue the first year and then two point three percent in the second year which is basically flat.

>> You know, our goal is because we cannot borrow we have to have a balanced budget.

We have to live within our means.

That means that second year is going to be extremely, extremely tough.

So a lot of the asks you know, I need this from my district.

I want that for this area are kind of on the on hold until we can kind of see.

>> So we're going to get another forecast here on the 16th of April when that comes in it'll be the final numbers we have to craft our budget.

I got to be honest with you, I don't think it's going to get a whole lot better if anything with the with the tariffs and some other things that are going to have some impact in Indiana.

I think in the short term it could be difficult budget to craft but we're going to get there.

We've done it in the past.

I was my first session there back in 09.

You know, we had to cut we had to cut a lot of departments to get our budget to balance.

We're not there so we've been here before.

We've survived but this will be a little bit of a tighter year than I've been in the last several months.

>> I think it bears mentioning too when it comes to the budget the uncertain within the Medicaid space is a big piece of what we're trying to balance and it's an interesting thing as a Republican we're excited about the the desire and the efforts at the federal level to get more efficient and cut some spending.

We can't keep going further and further our debt and I fully support that.

But that could end up falling onto the states if the Medicaid match of our general Medicaid fund for every dollar that the state puts in through the budget we're trying to craft the federal government sends us to and then when it comes to the Medicaid expansion, the hip 2.0 program that many people are on for every dollar that we put in the federal government sends us nine .

So that came out of the Affordable Care Act.

So if they look at that and say well maybe instead a nine to one match we need to go to two two to one like the regular program that all of a sudden throws that program into a new position of uncertainty.

And so we're trying you know, they're working through it at the federal level.

We're trying to work through things at the state level with a with a loom as you talked about a looming deadline and it's become a little difficult this year, a little more tricky than an average budget year.

>> Yeah, a few extra pieces involved in this.

We are speaking this evening with Representatives Matt Lehman at Martin Kabah here on prime time.

Barbara has called in with an offline question and we've had questions regarding redistricting in the past and Barbara's questions along that line.

>> What would you tell people that say that Indiana is a gerrymandered state?

I can answer that so go ahead.

So I tell people I know you can if you look at maps historically I would say this if you if you compare the map you're currently see is what we redistricted in to and in twenty for the 2010 election.

I compare that to the 2010 and then compare that to the 20 or 2001.

If you look at those maps when we when I got elected in 2008 it was under and I hate to say your Democrat math Republican maps but these are Democrat maps put together two 2000 and if you look at that map and compare it to the 2010 map, it's I mean I have them in my office where they're not marked by what years and one is very obviously gerrymandered.

You can see that from 2000 and then I remind people we took a 60 40 majority on those maps so we can talk about where lines are in gerrymandering.

I think it's really I think Hoosiers have really focused on policy.

A lot of the Democrats get up and they'll say well, you know, I miss all these colleagues from southern Indiana.

You gerrymandered them out of the district.

Nice that we took those seats in 2010 on their maps.

>> I mean those are the same districts they got elected in 2000 and so I think a lot of it is as politics becomes national, more national in and we try to keep it as local from a state standpoint is I think that policy carries over.

I think a lot of people were not there because of their district has just pivoted to a different a different political line and so I think you know, I don't think we're gerrymandered state.

I think if you compare it to Illinois now you see a very extreme there's ones that are looking like a big sea and we don't have those in Indiana, right?

>> Yeah.

Barbara, I appreciate that question.

I've gotten that question a lot over the years and had good conversations about gerrymandering, what that means and what a district would look like.

>> And you know, the first evidence that I would point to is is that after the 20 20 census and we got onto the new maps that we're currently on, there was no legal challenge to those maps.

And when you look at other states around the country, you saw lots of legal challenges that ended up getting challenged once or twice or three times and courts have to end up making maps and a mess and some of these states where ours were accepted and could fully been challenged and never was.

>> So I think that's a credit to the team that put them together and then I think when you look at when you draw the maps in any state, what should a district look like?

Should it look like a balanced political district or should it look like a community of interests which are two very different things?

Sometimes you got to draw the funny lines and not that not that Illinois is trying to make politically balanced districts but sometimes you have to draw things a little more oddly to try to get to a 50 50 type district in areas where it's heavily one way or another Republican or Democrat to me you want to put communities of interests together where somebody is representing that community you don't have a bunch of competing interests where it's it's almost hard to represent that community because it's so divided so to speak.

>> So it's an interesting question.

It's always a good discussion when I've had to have those one on one with folks over the years.

>> Barbara, thank you very much for that question.

Martin, let me stay with you for a moment because one of the bills that is still perhaps baking or you know is is sitting on the counter waiting for the next step perhaps House bill title for a bill to combat the rise in health care costs at nonprofit hospitals.

>> What's the background on that and the status of things?

Well, the background on that bill is that Indiana constantly ranks as one of the most expensive states for hospital pricing.

And so we have the legislature have really tried to tackle it in different ways over the years.

We've put pressure on our hospitals to relook at their pricing structures.

We've seen some movement, some positive movement.

I want to give credit where credit's due on that not quite to the speed that we want to see.

And what I hear had meetings at work today.

One of my clients came in and said thank you for putting some pressure on the hospitals and going after them because our constituents are feeling the pinch when they're getting medical bills.

>> So that's kind of the background of where four came from, where it's at.

You know, it's in the Senate.

It's passed the health committee from the health committee.

It got recommitted to appropriations, which seems to be the Senate's favorite thing to do is put all bills into appropriations after it goes through another committee which is fine.

>> That's a process.

But you know, I haven't gotten clear direction as to where it's going to go the way it came out of the house we were looking at a couple of different things the prices that that the hospitals charge for facility fees, the facility fees are where we see the biggest problem doctor fees were actually really low but when the facility fees are very, very high so we're looking at phasing in a cap on facility fees but then also the overall bill matters and that's where where the bill sits today anyway is that if they would charge over three hundred percent of Medicare which they tell us that the breakeven part or point for Medicare is about one hundred and fifty percent so this is twice the cost of their cost.

They would go over that that then they would lose their state not for profit status and have to pay property taxes, income taxes.

The goal is not to make that happen.

>> The goal is to actually get the prices down.

So we'll see the Senate's got a little more sensitivity on different parts of that bill.

>> It'll be interesting to see where we actually end up at the end of the day.

Here's a money question for Mr. Lehman which follows some other legislation from say one to two years ago.

I think when the state and Local Tax Review Commission was formed there was this focus on eliminating maybe the state's individual income tax and now there's legislation involved to perhaps lower that tax rate in Senate Bill 451.

>> I think you're connected to that.

Yes, I was one of the sponsors in the House on that and it's basically to continue what we've done in the past, which is if we can if we have the means to do this, we want to continue to to work towards a lower tax rate.

>> I was never one who was like, you know, the whole thing ax the tax and things like that because you have the same with property taxes.

You have people like we shouldn't have any property taxes.

You have to find a balance in the tax system so you will make sure governments can be efficient and effective and not go beyond their means.

But at the same time you have to that balance.

So I think income tax is something that again you're competing for jobs.

You're competing for industry if that piece of the puzzle needs to tick down, I think that bill kind of sets us on that stage.

>> I want to go to James his question offline because it also connects to something that is is well timed within the body of the show.

James is asking about how much support nuclear power may have today than it did say 20 years ago.

>> Both of you are connected with bills regarding the manufacture the use of these small modular nuclear reactors.

>> So I thought the timing of you both being here on this topic and James is just moving it.

Let's talk now about this.

>> Martin, let's start with you.

What's the state of things?

Well, you know, I can't I don't know what the popular was 20 years ago to directly answer your question, James, but I will say that much more research has gone into the safety aspect which I think has brought people's attention to and the cleanliness I mean we are looking for clean energy.

Nuclear is a very clean source of power, a very reliable source of power.

One of the challenges with clean energy up to date is the reliability factor states that have gone too far into the solar and wind reliance have experienced some rough turbulent times when that power is less reliable.

And so, you know, we want to be a leader in this space in the state of Indiana and want to see these nuclear power plants pop up and provide needed services as we receive in our communities more and more of these data centers that are so energy dependent it's going to be critical that we have reliable power and we can't rely just on the sun in the wind and coal whether we like it or not.

And I've always been an all of the all of the above on energy policy person but based on federal regulations and federal bills that have passed over the years, coal is is still moving out and so we have to have a reliable replacement for that and nuclear seems to be the way to go.

>> Yeah, I mean electricity is created when something burns so something's got to hear got flip a switch and it's got to light up and I think if you look at the world around us we I said it's on the house or we are one of the most heavily producers.

America is a producer of nuclear energy but the mix in our platform of energy consumption we're one of the lowest of the developed nations.

France is 70 percent nuclear.

South Africa is like sixty or seventy five or 60 or 70 percent nuclear and we're like 20.

I think we got to get more on the grid and James, this question it's a great question, James.

You know, 20 years ago I think you still had that remnants of Chernobyl you had what was happening in Japan and and even Three Mile Island.

So it kind of reared its head at times I think with the technology where we're at today and where the safety is today.

I remember I toured the plant up in Michigan and if you ask them what happens if a 747 hits this building and the answer was it's going to be a really bad day for the 747 because these things are very secure.

>> They're very strong and they're very safe and I think it is a very reliable energy that we can utilize heavily into the future.

>> So one procedural question there's hospital 10 or seven there Senate Bill 420 for essentially the same because for 24 apparently is one of those bills that Governor Brown has now signed.

>> So is Tennessee seven still in play?

I think there's parts of Tennessee over there still maybe necessary and those may find a home somewhere else.

But I think overall it is both of those we're getting to the same thing and that is one making sure we're also incentivizing the movement towards that.

So we are as Smart said, we're not so reliant on maybe solar or wind but it's it's part the mix.

>> And so I do think with the data centers coming in the timing is absolutely perfect with what timing we have left in the program.

Let me ask about another House priority Bill and that's Tenno three on Medicaid fraud maybe unfair with the amount of time we have left.

This could be a half hour in and of itself.

>> But as most things where are we now with 10 or three that was actually 10 to just make sure everybody at home is going to go online and look these up?

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> If you're scoring at home, please suggest your score.

No, I think a real quick when it takes a chunk of your budget you have to draw attention so you really have to get to a place where you talk about really long term how do we make sure we're efficient in that space and Medicaid?

>> Yeah, to a really important bill because it's going to connect agencies that can review people's qualifications for it.

I mean we're coming out of the covid era still when when you talk about the Hip 2.0 program and the Medicaid system when it deals with health insurance, we didn't for good reason didn't want to kick people off in the middle of that that situation but that's led to people being on it that probably didn't need to be on it because they had other options.

The hip 2.0 program's a very good program, very good insurance and so there's a desire to keep it if I'm not going to get kicked off and we just have not had good systems set up to verify it's been more of a self verified self report system and so we just need to make sure do you qualify income wise let's verify that with the Department of Revenue.

Let's take a look at the other systems that we have department workforce development and see where people are at and just you know, it's the old Ronald Reagan trust but verify and we need to start verifying and it's important to to get that and some folks may need to move off the program if they don't qualify but that's going to save the program for those who really need the program and that's important to final minute you each have thirty seconds.

What else is being followed or what are your expectations in these these final throes of April?

>> It's it's all budget and property taxes that'll be the focus of the last day.

There's other issues out there that are I'd say are ancillary.

Those are going to be the ones you're going to focus on.

>> That'll be the things to deal with on the last day.

And I would say a lot of my concentration has been by virtue of being on the health committee and chair of the insurance committee is going to be on some health care reforms when it comes to prior authorization pharmacy benefit managers and our pharmacies getting some extra support that may be being left behind by some of those pharmacy benefit managers is going to be a lot more health care stuff coming as well.

>> And quickly, the overunder on ending by April twenty fifth um maybe you heard it here I take over every time we make an early prediction I'm taking the oath.

>> I hope I'm wrong every time to be continued the reason to tune in next week which we hope you will as this week we are joined by House majority floor leader met leaving the eighty first district Republican State Representative Martin Kabah.

Gentlemen, thank you so much.

>> Thank you.

Thank you.

And thank you as well for allowing us to be part of your evening for all of us with prime time I take care.

>> We'll see you next week.

Good night