Nugen Law; focusing on estate planning and elder care law, emphasizing independence and quality of life.

Serving Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Florida.

More information at NugenLaw.com.

grieving and welcome to PBS for weighing up the name of our show is LIFE Ahead for a Good Reason?

>> PBS of course has a goal always of educating, entertaining and informing you and that's what this show does.

>> It's called LIFE Ahead because we have different topics every Wednesday and the things that we talk about are things that might help you as you make choices in your life .

Ahead tonight tonight's legal show keep that in mind as you're watching the phone numbers right there on the screen and will appear periodically here in the next half hour.

And if you have legal question, we have the person that can give you an answer and that's Brian Nugent.

I welcome him.

>> He's with us.

You've been with this every month for a long time.

And I will say right now, Brian ,stand up before the show.

>> You'll be back again next month on the 16th of March 16.

>> I look forward to it already third Wednesday.

Fantastic.

I always know before he does.

I just look at my calendar tonight's LIFE Ahead.

>> Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Well, tonight we're going to be talking about what to do when a loved one passes.

Sure.

It's hard to know what to do to begin with.

>> You're grieving.

You're in shock here in denial.

I mean you're going through a whole lot.

>> It's true.

But there are some steps or processes or things you need to take care of .

Let's start about let's start with what should you do first, Brian?

>> If someone in your family dies and you're the well, maybe you are not the main person but you're in the family.

>> I would say to your earlier point, Sandy , I think that take time to grieve frankly.

Yeah.

There is nothing wrong with taking a beat and recognizing and appreciating the life of the person that's just passed and I think that's the first thing to focus on sometimes I'll get calls very shortly after someone has passed or I'm sure other attorneys get calls very shortly after a client has passed from loved ones or folks that are interested in the estate of the deceased.

And I always say there's no rush to to tackle anything.

Take a moment to figure out what's going on and figure out your family dynamics and when you're ready then come and visit kind of visit with your attorney and and speak with him about what what steps that you should be taking after you've gotten through that initial process that shocked you were kind of referencing before Sandy .

No one is just take care of yourself.

>> Take care of yourself, OK?

What what period of time should you take or could you take before it's a problem?

>> Well, I think the first thing would be our creditors if their ongoing debts to be paid.

Have arrangements been made for those ongoing debts to be satisfied?

I my experience has been that if creditors are aware that someone has passed they typically will work with you to some degree to make sure that you have an opportunity to get yourself together and you have an opportunity to figure out what's going on when we're talking about opening estates and so forth.

That process depends upon if there are beneficiaries designated on assets or if they're not beneficiaries designated on assets.

But oftentimes what we talk about are some very practical things.

So if we know that a death is impending, we know that someone may be passing in the near future if you have a power of attorney in place for that individual, what you might consider doing is changing a mailing address of that individual and for it to be coming to a different address if you aren't there local if you aren't right there unable to get the mail on a daily you know, on a very regular basis so we don't miss something you might consider using that power of attorney at the post office and changing the address so that you don't miss a bill when it becomes do you don't miss a statement for something when it becomes due perhaps there's a mortgage statement being sent to the house and if you didn't have that mail forwarded you wouldn't recognize it.

So sometimes we consider forwarding the mail to an individual.

It's going to be responsible for the estate of the deceased.

So that's one of the first things you may do not after the person is passed but at slightly before the person may be passing if you need to forward the mail after the time that the person has passed the post office requires that you actually open an estate and then the they see the letters that have been issued by the court saying that you have the ability to forward the mail.

So it sounds very it's a very practical suggestion.

>> You can't just yourself go to the post office and say hey, I want to get so-and-so mail right now.

You cannot sometimes the post office will permit that they're really not supposed to permit that.

Sometimes they'll permit if they know you and they're familiar with the family, et cetera.

But the post office is supposed to require a power of attorney in advance of someone passing or actual letters from the court where you've been appointed as a personal representative to be able to afford that mail.

It's a very practical thing but sometimes the mail is missed because we didn't pay a bill.

We weren't we didn't get all the paperwork we needed before filing taxes something like that.

>> Well, and you may not know everything that right.

Let's say it's your your father whatever.

You may not know what bills your father would be expecting.

You may not know he has a magazine subscription that are that he has cable or you what what other bills might be controlled.

>> So in order to you need to find those statements that are coming in.

So if you're seeing the newspaper coming in or seeing a magazine subscription coming in, you should make a note of that.

So we are going to want to cancel those magazine subscriptions.

You actually estate actually can get a credit for the amount that was overpaid on on that subscription.

So yeah, you're exactly right.

I mean this time of year especially if it's tax season and you're getting news you're getting ten ninety nine you can start to find what assets that are out there so that you'll know if we need to open an estate if there were things enough assets that individual's name that merits opening an estate in Indiana over one hundred thousand dollars in their name without beneficiaries that if we start gathering those ten ninety nines we see the assets are out there and then we know yep, we have more than one hundred thousand dollars that didn't have a beneficiary on it.

We need to open an estate.

We also may be looking at those ten ninety nine and if it indicates that those assets were in the name of a trust we know that we may not need to open an estate at least for those assets.

Yeah so checking the mail actually is something that's very important to do and educate you just like you're saying you're maybe learning about things that you didn't know about your father, your mother, your brother, your sister didn't realize they had this account.

>> I didn't realize they had this life insurance policy.

>> Well, you mentioned getting ten ninety nine and thanks for taxes.

Yep.

Do you have to do anything about that?

>> Of course yeah.

So you would oh the deceased would still have a tax obligation for the time between they passed rather the first of the year and the day in the year in which they passed you wouldn't address that until the next year but if their prior year taxes hadn't been paid of course you would be responsible for making sure that their prior year taxes are paid.

A personal tax return is filed both in the federal level in the state level assuming they make enough money to do that.

>> But of course yeah taxes would need to be paid so you you want to make sure you're saving getting let's say you've changed at the post office and you're getting their mail save the ten ninety nine or anything that has to do with taxes because at some point you don't have to yourself or being the person responsible financially will have to go and have those taxes so they would gather all of that just like we would for ourselves.

>> We gather all of that bring that to a tax preparer CPA and have them prepare a tax return on behalf of the deceased.

>> But it may give you know, talking about things you might not know getting the U.S. tax or tax notices.

>> You may find out that he has some investments in a bank you didn't know anything about.

>> It's exactly right.

Yeah.

So the beginning of the year is a great time to find that out because those ten ninety nine are being issued.

So that will give you an idea about what's out there and what assets may what assets may be in place.

>> I'm going to back up a little bit and you know we're talking is if the person has passed away and what do you do and how do you take care of everything?

>> Let's back up to before the person passes and what you should do and this is an emotional it is a conversation without additional time.

>> But what are some things to focus on?

>> I think first is if you can have a discussion with a loved one, if you can have a discussion with and find out if they have any estate planning in place, is there a will out there?

Is there a trust out there and do they have something called testamentary capacity so that they can make those sign those instruments if they don't have those in place, if they don't have those items in place?

Are you able to discuss with the person where is it they're wanting those assets to go?

So using that power of attorney I was referencing before, if you're able to designate beneficiaries on particular accounts to recognize how that person wants their estate to be distributed, that may be a conversation that you have with the individual also for funeral planning, does the person have funeral planning in place?

Do they not have funeral planning in place, have a sincere conversation with them?

What would you like to see take place?

Do we want a traditional burial?

Do you want to calling do you not want to call and do you want to cremation?

Is there something special that you want to have done have that discussion so that you know in your heart what it is that that individual wanted and you can implement that by using things like the power of attorney the health care representative designation and those forms would allow you to assist that person in making those funeral plans.

Yeah, if they've prepaid for their funeral then we want to know we want to know that where it was, where it was, how it was handled exactly.

So you know what funeral home to contact at the time of the person's passing so that you're making sure that those things are taken care of in the way that they wanted them to be taken care of if they haven't done that, is it appropriate to prepay at that time and preplan at that time?

Sometimes folks will plan for their funeral so they know what funeral home they're going to be using but they didn't prepare for it and that's all right.

But we would want to know where they did that preplanning so that if you were assisting them or assisting the family and making those funeral arrangements, you would know who to call to of course to take the body and then to put in place the funeral arrangements they had planned and the estate would be responsible.

>> Do you have to know right away when someone passes what funeral home to call it would be best thing to do.

>> It would be best they can hold the body is McEvoy's as that sounds they can't hold the body for a period of time but you would hand at the hospital.

This is terrible.

I'm so sorry I'm asking you that's the body so the hospital can hold the body for a period of time OK and funeral homes can hold the body for a period of time as well.

>> OK but so that's why I'm saying to you Sandy , if you could have the conversation with the individual if you have the luxury of time, have that conversation.

What I would suggest if you don't have the luxury of time you didn't have that conversation for whatever reason the person was uncomfortable talking about it or it was an unexpected passing.

We hadn't been able to plan for .

Speak with your family members and what is it that you did they talk to you about what they wanted to have done so that you are again honoring that person and recognizing what it is that they wanted to have?

>> Well, I appreciate that you're telling us some of those things and I think what's important to remember is that these are hard things to talk about and especially I think for the older generation everything was kept pretty quiet and you didn't talk about your feelings.

You didn't talk about your estate planning.

You didn't talk about your finances.

>> So then all of a sudden the kids are left trying to figure out what do you want?

What do we think you want?

So you may have to be the one that starts with the parent or grandparent or whomever has passed away.

>> You may have to start the conversation of asking them where would you like to go on?

>> How do you want my experience has been that the more senior the person is it's not as likely that they would have talked about some of those types of things.

>> I think that's what I'm trying to say.

I do find over time now that people are more comfortable talking about those things.

They recognize that it's a natural part of life and it's not necessarily something to be feared.

And I think that when you've had that open, honest discussion you can be very comfortable that you're putting into effect what it is if that person wants it and if you have the opportunity to get those documents signed in advance, the will the trust power of attorney health care rep designation by all means get those things in place.

It will make the process so much easier for everyone open doors for you.

>> So I would encourage everyone to have those in place durable power of attorney.

>> Yeah.

What do you have to do I mean to make that right legally correct.

Well you have to be of age and 18 eighteen and I think there's an exception if you're serving in the Merchant Marine or something like that.

>> I'm not I don't intend to either but have to be have testamentary capacity.

I mean you understand who it is that you're pointing to perform those certain duties and it needs to be signed needs to be notarized.

So it's really a very straightforward thing.

I encourage everybody to have one even kids that are going off to college as a parent you're going to want that in place.

>> It's a good thing to have in place.

OK, yeah.

How much should you we talked about what's a difficult conversation with that older generation.

>> Sure.

What are some ways you can bring up some of these things that you're going to eventually need to write but you don't want to make them too uncomfortable?

>> I encourage folks to talk about it when they're in a in a pleasant setting.

So as opposed to waiting for there to be a negative event happening or something, it was unplanned.

Have a conversation when you're at a family gathering at a cookout so that it's a normal part of discussion and it isn't something to be feared.

>> You know, we're all aging and I think it's a healthy and appropriate discussion to have and frankly the person that may be a little uncomfortable with them having those conversations what you're giving to the person that you're having conversation with is a gift.

You're letting them know what you want and you're removing guilt from them so that they don't have to make decisions in a vacuum not knowing what it is that you did or didn't want to have it take place.

So I would have the conversation in a setting that's comfortable that's not tension filled and if assuming that folks in the family get along for everybody in the family to be aware of that conversation, tensions run high and anxiety runs high if we're dealing with end of life decisions and so I encourage those conversations when you don't have that tension and for everybody in the family to be aware of the discussion sometimes folks that aren't necessarily around may have you know I talked to mom five years ago and I have the impression she wanted this or this but mom's changed your mind.

She doesn't want to do that anymore.

So those if we have those ongoing discussions then at least everybody's in the same place at the same time and reading from the same thing like that you said on going yeah, I've heard of cases and situations and as the attorney maybe you can't do where the siblings don't agree.

>> I mean that may be the one thing.

Yeah, well you know Mom told me this five years ago right.

>> And they're adamant that that's what mom or mom said.

I get the house.

>> You get the house mom I have all the jewelry.

All right.

And in mom may have said that that may be true but without that being in writing without that being memorialized, you're setting up a very uncomfortable situation for family members if they have a different opinion about how that should be addressed.

One of the questions that sometimes comes up for me with clients when I come into my office I'm certain other attorneys as well as what happens to Social Security, how do we how do we let Social Security know that mom is passed and how does that work?

>> Actually a funeral home is responsible for telling Social Security that the individual has passed and so that you don't have a duty.

It used to be years ago you would have to contact Social Security, let the person know that, let them know that the person had passed Social Security then would ask for the money back that they had paid.

You don't see that as much anymore.

>> Social Security is paid actually in arrears and you don't get the Social Security for the month in which you passed.

So sometimes Social Security will say we've paid and we're going to want some of that back and they literally can go into the account and draw it.

So if we draw the money out of that account too quickly after someone's passed away, there isn't money there for Social Security to draw.

But this state still has a duty to reimburse Social Security.

But no duty to call Social Security.

>> The funeral home will do that on your behalf.

That's part of their obligation.

What else do they take care of the funeral, the funeral home, the order death certificates again and that has to be signed by the doctor that yes, the county coroner if I'm not mistaken is the ofat or their representative.

But what I will say about practicality of death certificates you can order as many as you want however any more you don't necessarily need an original death certificate every time you're gaining access to an account.

There was a time when we would my gosh we would use original death certificates and they would go out to the different companies banks, credit unions and to your brokers and to insurance companies.

Oftentimes now we're able to use copies of death certificates and not originals.

So I normally encourage people order two or three death certificate.

You may only need to have one actually but don't go crazy ordering fifteen death certificates, death certificates.

There's a charge.

There's a charge charge.

So if you can if you can keep your expenses a little bit lower I would encourage you to do that and not order.

>> I might need one or a copy to take to the bank.

>> Oh yes.

Oh yeah you're going to at least need to have one original and normally they'll make a copy of it or you can deliver to them a copy OK that's right.

I used to be years ago we would need originals for everything.

>> We don't necessarily need originals anymore.

Tell me if I'm right we talked about Social Security.

>> Let's say the husband passes away leaving his wife and she also gets Social Security so she should go.

>> Yeah.

So she should talk to the Social Security office assuming that his Social Security payments were higher than hers and she she should talk to Social Security office about getting his benefits and even if there was a divorce, if you were married for a period of time, Social Security will still allow you to collect the higher Social Security amount.

And even if the individual was married on more than one occasion, more than one person may be drawing from that Social Security amount.

>> So yes, you do that go to Social Security office and I mean you were married for a period of more than one person might be drawing on it.

How can you do that and what situation?

Well, we we don't make the decision.

Social Security is the one that determines who gets the money.

But if I'm not mistaken, there's a ten year requirement of marriage.

You need to go to the Social Security office when the person is passed in order to claim benefits as a surviving brother, as a spouse of that individual even if there was a divorce, you still are able to go and get benefits.

>> Yeah, OK.

I've seen a situation where an individual was married, had had a divorce, married another individual.

The second person passed but actually the benefits from the first spouse were higher and so they went back and claimed the benefits from the first spouse and not the second spouse.

>> It's just so OK but it's good to know that that's certainly an option.

Look for a lot of people don't know.

>> Yeah, look for your benefits for sure.

The surviving spouse should check Social Security and see if there are benefits that are available to them if they're able to receive a higher Social Security payment.

>> OK, all right.

>> So hopefully you've talked then with your family about what you would like.

Yeah, I will say, Brian, I've also heard of situations not only the older generation or the older they are, the more private they are yet but I've also heard that they not only are they uncomfortable talking about but if they try to talk to their kids, the kids don't come to hear about it because they don't want to even think about their parents being immortal.

>> Yeah, well I appreciate that and I have seen that it makes children uncomfortable.

But I think that if you are having that ongoing conversation, if you make it a normal part of your discourse, it isn't something that is a foreign topic whatsoever that makes it much more easy for the family to have the conversation.

But as a child we love our parents.

We don't want to see anything bad happen to them difficult to see your parents age and become more infirm over time without a doubt.

But I think that we owe it to them and to ourselves and to our siblings and other loved ones to have those conversations and make sure that everybody is on the same page.

If people become sometimes challenged when they know that they may be inheriting some money that may be receiving some funds and so there can be tension in the family about what should be happening.

So whatever you can do to avoid that and keep everybody friendly for a long period of time, I would encourage those conversations.

>> Well, if you're talking about it with your your kids or your family, what are some things that you should let them know if they don't want to verbally talk about it at the time?

>> Can you can you say OK, when I die in my office there's a purple folder and it has my Sherril and this and of course coarseness so that they know where to go for that information.

>> Yeah I recommend that people keep their estate planning documents those end of life documents in a safe place but not necessarily safety deposit box someplace that you can get to and it's easily available for the family if it's in the bank and it's locked up, it's not quite as convenient and there's a process to open that box that we may not want to go through.

So I would encourage folks to like your saying saying you have a purple folder, a blue folder where all of my estate planning documents are located.

Let your loved ones know where they are even to the point earlier we were talking about the mail having scouring through the mail and seeing the ten ninety nine oh my gosh if you have a filing cabinet or wherever you keep your important papers at home where you have monthly statements that have been coming out life insurance policies those are always tricky to not I shouldn't say always oftentimes are tricky to get those cashed out if you can gather those things together for your loved ones, they don't want to have the conversation with you excellent suggestions and at least point them to where they are in the house where they aren't a particular drawer so they can find everything.

I will sometimes I'll see folks that have checking accounts at multiple banks, multiple credit unions and if you have the ability prior to passing to start gathering those together and at least giving them one neat spot, I would encourage folks to do that.

If you know that death is impending and you have that power of attorney in place, you may consider yourself going around and collecting those the funds from those various accounts and starting to put them in one spot not to take it out of the account but just to collect it so it's much more convenient to distribute at the time of passing.

>> OK, last question.

Yeah, and we only have about a minute or so left Brian in this world now.

>> Yes.

Social media.

Yeah.

And we account we have Facebook so social mail what kind of information should we leave for our kids in terms of passwords and accounts?

>> Well if you're that it's fantastic if you have a list of your passwords you can give to your children so they can go in and close those accounts out.

Most people don't.

I don't I don't know that I have memorized all of my passwords.

Most people don't.

But in those documents that you're preparing power of attorney, you may want to include language that says you have access to the social media of this individual.

I will say over time the social media sites have also become more savvy recognizing that that Facebook page lives on past you and memories may come up and so forth.

Do you want those memories to continue coming up?

Do you not want those memories to continue coming up, do you want to be reminded that the person has passed on an annual basis?

You can memorialize them on those sites.

There's a process to do that where people can leave messages written memorials about the individual or you can close the account down.

But so you should have that language in your play that allows you to close those accounts out.

The accounts also have online you can access them letting them know that the person is past file a death certificate with them, give them obituary, something like that to demonstrate the person really has passed.

>> OK, all right.

It's just really complicated.

OK, I want to remind you all that Brian is going to be back here March 19th and if you have some questions for him that'll be a good opportunity for you to call in.

We have 15 seconds for you to give the last words of best advice you have.

>> Well, thank you, Senator, for having me on tonight.

I would encourage everybody to get organized, get some of those estate planning documents in place will trust health care up.

>> There's no time to wait for that.

>> All right.

And again, don't be shy.

I think Brian seeing in terms of sharing with your children or your siblings what your wishes are, we're going to see you back here next week at seven.

Good night Nugen Law; focusing on estate planning and elder care law, emphasizing independence and quality of life.

Serving Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Florida.

More information at NugenLaw.com.